Does WeatherCat need WeatherLink to communicate to Davis Vantage Vue

[DJF]

Sorry, searched for a while for this and can't find answer.
I want to upgrade my WH1080 to a Davis Vantage Vue. WeatherCat v3.12 is working well with WH1080 (when it's USB not playing up) on Catalina.
Do I need to purchase WeatherLink to communicate between WeatherCat and the Vantage Vue OR is WeatherLink just to communicate to the Davis servers?

TIA
-- David

UPDATE - of course, once I'd posted this, I found a page telling me that it does! - sorry for the bandwidth.
-- David

[elagache]

Dear David and WeatherCat faithful,

Since this is your first posting to the WeatherCat forum let me be the first to welcome you! 

. . . . .
Do I need to purchase WeatherLink to communicate between WeatherCat and the Vantage Vue OR is WeatherLink just to communicate to the Davis servers?
. . . .
UPDATE - of course, once I'd posted this, I found a page telling me that it does! - sorry for the bandwidth.

I'm glad your searching got you an answer, but for the sake of completeness actually you have some additional choices.  What you need is a piece of hardware called a data logger.  It plugs into the Vantage Vue console and provides a USB connection.  In addition to providing the connection to your computer, it has a storage buffer allowing you to disconnect your computer from your weather station and download the data later on.  Depending on the sample interval this can be a long period.  Here is a table on the WeatherCat Wiki showing your options.

https://wiki.trixology.com/index.php?title=Capacity_of_the_Davis_data-logger_to_store_weather_data_depending_on_the_chosen_sampling_interval

Recently, a number of 3rd party data loggers have come on the market.  It appears that some patents expired and Davis Instruments is no longer attempting to prevent this products from reaching consumers.  One example of these is the WiFiLogger2.  Here is a link to a Internet vendor Scaled Instruments.

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/shop/shop-by-product/data-loggers/wifilogger2/

As you can read in the description it is a more sophisticated device than the original Davis data logger and it has the advantage of using WiFi so that you don't need to physically connect your computer to your console.  The disadvantage is that doesn't provide the data logger capability.

Unfortunately, there is a further twist in the plot.  Davis has discontinued WeatherLink and it is becoming difficult to get your hands on a genuine Davis Data-logger.  Instead, Davis is selling its own cloud-based solution. 

The simplest thing to do is to buy WeatherLink for Mac if you can still find it.  If not, you might consider either the Windows version or one of the 3rd party data loggers.  You can purchase the new data logger that connects to Davis's own cloud solution, but WeatherCat releases cannot access this data, although there is an early WeatherCat beta that does.

I hope that's some help.  If you have any questions by all means ask.  It has become a much more complex topic than it used to be.

Cheers, Edouard

[Blicj11]

In addition to Edouard's excellent and helpful reply, I have a few things to add.

First, in a recent, disturbing (to me) conversation I had with Davis tech support, they told me they do not currently have a product that interfaces between their weather stations and a Mac. I was asking about my options if my current Davis IP Data Logger goes bad, which appears might be happening. Davis is developing cloud options that bypass Macs altogether. At this point, in my backyard weather career, that is not good news to me.

Second, Ryan Wilhour, at Scaled Instruments, has recognized the need to replace the Davis IP data logger (Davis part # 6555) with a generic knock-off for those who can't or don't want to use the WifiLogger2. He has commissioned the manufacture of an IP data logger replacement, which is currently in testing. This is very good news for those who can use an ethernet cabled data logger.

For those many, many WeatherCatters who need USB loggers, I have no news, so i hope someone else does, because Davis is moving to interfacing directly to the cloud (not the cumulus could, the other one).

[Gman19]

I stumbled across this post in trying to figure out if my WeatherLinkIP may be going bad.  Over the past couple months, WC keeps having to reset comms.  The WLIP has been running with WC since September 2013, and I have never seen this issue.  Nonetheless, my email gets blown up every day with comms notifications from WC.
Anyone else ever seen this?

[elagache]

Dear Gman19 and WeatherCat troubleshooters,

I stumbled across this post in trying to figure out if my WeatherLinkIP may be going bad.  Over the past couple months, WC keeps having to reset comms.  The WLIP has been running with WC since September 2013, and I have never seen this issue.  Nonetheless, my email gets blown up every day with comms notifications from WC.
Anyone else ever seen this?

I have a USB data logger, so I can't offer you any direct experience, but WeatherLinkIP using your local area network.  Do you have a network router or hub?  You might need to power-cycle or otherwise reboot that device.  It could be not working properly and preventing WeatherCat from reaching your console.  While these devices are robust, even they need a reboot once in a while.

Cheers, Edouard 

[Blicj11]

I stumbled across this post in trying to figure out if my WeatherLinkIP may be going bad.  Over the past couple months, WC keeps having to reset comms.  The WLIP has been running with WC since September 2013, and I have never seen this issue.  Nonetheless, my email gets blown up every day with comms notifications from WC.
Anyone else ever seen this?

Yes! It's now happening to me a few times a month. I called Davis tech support but they were stumped. My theory is either the IP logger or the console connection is going bad. Davis says they have never heard of a logger going bad. When I notice it happening to me, I have thousands and tens of thousands of Comms Errors in the WC Status Window. I then follow these instructions on the Wiki to clear the logger and everything works fine for another few weeks.

https://wiki.trixology.com/index.php?title=How_to_reset_a_Davis_WeatherLinkIP_data_logger_and_other_troubleshooting_tips

[Gman19]

Thanks Edouard & Blick for your input.  I am going to try the 20 step logger clearing protocol and see if that will work for me.  It's just odd this thing has been running around the clock since September 2013 and just now seems to be acting up.  I will post back here the results of my quest!

[Blicj11]

I am going to try the 20 step logger clearing protocol and see if that will work for me.

It is not a preventative, but a corrective, so wait until the next time you have a problem and then do it. And thanks for posting back to share how it turns out.

[johnd]

Just happened across this thread rather belatedly I'm afraid and just wanted to correct/supplement a couple of the answers:

First, the third-party (ie non-Davis) Vue/VP2-compatible loggers DO typically have data logging, ie what is referred to above as a 'storage' buffer. (Actually it's more of an intelligent summarising and storage function than a simple buffer, but it's a similar concept in practice). So all the loggers from the 'WiFi Logger' designer have storage and I believe that all the Meteobridge products do too.

If anyone is interested in the range of third-party loggers that are available nowadays then I have a summary online at: https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/compatible-loggers.htm .

Second, to be clear, what Davis have discontinued from a Mac perspective is any further development of their Weatherlink for Mac software. The USB loggers to provide the hardware interface to a Mac are still readily available and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. You may still see the logger pack referred to 'Weatherlink for Windows' but the logger hardware is identical between PC and Mac - the only difference was the included CD/DVD software and Davis have now made this downloadable rather than included in the logger pack.

Although the old 6555 WeatherlinkIP network logger is now discontinued, the third-party loggers assumed the role of a network logger providing data in the old binary data format. Any software that could accept a data feed from WeatherlinkIP should also be able to do so from a compatible network logger and to the best of my knowledge this should be true of WeatherCat.

The (relatively) new Weatherlink Live (WLL) unit has now effectively taken over from WeatherlinkIP as the primary Davis logger product. I would guestimate that probably 50% of our users buying a new Vue/VP2 station buy the WLL unit and not a traditional logger.

It's important to be clear about what WLL can do. Yes, one of its main roles is to upload data to the Davis weatherlink.com cloud platform, should you wish to use that service (the real-time part is free of course). But it also has a powerful local API through which local computers & software can obtain a real-time data feed direct from the WLL unit. Other major Davis-compatible software like CumulusMX, Meteobridge, weewx and Weather Display is already fully compatible with WLL. It would be great to see WeatherCat introducing this compatibility too. Close to the top-ranking page in our Davis knowledgebase is people looking for Mac-compatible software so the demand is clearly there, but if their 'logger' is a WLL unit then currently they need to look elsewhere than WeatherCat for software..

[elagache]

Dear John and WeatherCat station caregivers,

Thank you very much for these clarifications!   

First, the third-party (ie non-Davis) Vue/VP2-compatible loggers DO typically have data logging, ie what is referred to above as a 'storage' buffer. (Actually it's more of an intelligent summarising and storage function than a simple buffer, but it's a similar concept in practice). So all the loggers from the 'WiFi Logger' designer have storage and I believe that all the Meteobridge products do too.

I wasn't aware of this!  Exactly how do these buffers compare quantitatively to the original Davis loggers.  We have this table on the WeatherCat wiki that indicates the time you have before you will start to lose data:

https://wiki.trixology.com/index.php?title=Capacity_of_the_Davis_data-logger_to_store_weather_data_depending_on_the_chosen_sampling_interval

Are the 3rd-party products comparable?

Second, to be clear, what Davis have discontinued from a Mac perspective is any further development of their Weatherlink for Mac software. The USB loggers to provide the hardware interface to a Mac are still readily available and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

Okay, I had not looked but I suppose what you are referring to is this item still listed on the Davis website:

https://www.davisinstruments.com/products/weatherlink-windows-usb

Indeed those of us using USB data loggers can purchase a replacement.

It's important to be clear about what WLL can do. Yes, one of its main roles is to upload data to the Davis weatherlink.com cloud platform, should you wish to use that service (the real-time part is free of course). But it also has a powerful local API through which local computers & software can obtain a real-time data feed direct from the WLL unit. Other major Davis-compatible software like CumulusMX, Meteobridge, weewx and Weather Display is already fully compatible with WLL. It would be great to see WeatherCat introducing this compatibility too.
. . . . .

There is a early beta of WeatherCat supporting the WLL data logger.  There is more information about it here:

https://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=3264.msg31313#msg31313

Alas our fearless leader appears to be still overwhelmed by his day job and perhaps other issues, so progress on this beta has been stalled for some time.

Once more thanks!

Cheers, Edouard

[johnd]

First, the third-party (ie non-Davis) Vue/VP2-compatible loggers DO typically have data logging, ie what is referred to above as a 'storage' buffer. (Actually it's more of an intelligent summarising and storage function than a simple buffer, but it's a similar concept in practice). So all the loggers from the 'WiFi Logger' designer have storage and I believe that all the Meteobridge products do too.

I wasn't aware of this!  Exactly how do these buffers compare quantitatively to the original Davis loggers.  We have this table on the WeatherCat wiki that indicates the time you have before you will start to lose data:

https://wiki.trixology.com/index.php?title=Capacity_of_the_Davis_data-logger_to_store_weather_data_depending_on_the_chosen_sampling_interval

Are the 3rd-party products comparable?

I'm not a hardware details person, but AIUI the compatible loggers (certainly the WiFi Logger and its Ethernet equivalent) are built with exactly the same archive memory chip as the Davis loggers and so memory storage is exactly the same. (This is apparently needed for full compatibility with the console.) Thus there is capacity to store 512 pages of data, each of 5 archive records, giving 2560 records capacity in total. How long this lasts obviously depends on the archive interval that you currently have set, but the table you linked to should still be correct for the compatible loggers too.

NB In case anyone is wondering, these compatible loggers are indeed compatible with modern Vue/VP2 consoles, ie no 'green dot' issues.

[Blicj11]

johnd:

Thank you for sharing this information. Great to know.

[elagache]

Dear John, Blick, and WeatherCat station caregivers,

I'm not a hardware details person, but AIUI the compatible loggers (certainly the WiFi Logger and its Ethernet equivalent) are built with exactly the same archive memory chip as the Davis loggers and so memory storage is exactly the same. (This is apparently needed for full compatibility with the console.)
. . . .

Thank you very much for your explanation!  I never imagined that the data-buffer was also required for full compatibility with Davis consoles.  It is a small matter, but I've been in two situations were the only way I was going keep my data contiguous was if a piece of Mac related hardware arrived before the data logger rolled-over.  Since the speed with which you can obtain replacement hardware is good and improving, having that data-logger is a comforting insurance that you'll still have all the data by the time you get your computer setup (and WeatherCat) back in operation.

Thanks again!

Cheers, Edouard 

[southwye]

My original vantage pro gave up the ghost several years ago and not being able to afford a replacement I resorted to good old pen and paper.

Now with the funds to do so I thought it would be a simple task to swap over the two consoles.

That does not appear to be the case.

I’m currently running the latest iteration of Weathercat, Silicon Labs latest (March 2021) driver and MacOS 11.5.  I have slavishly followed a number solutions but I’m wondering whether I have ended up in an unresolvable hole and this is evidence of Davis no longer supporting Macs.

Any help would be appreciated - I have to say that I’m not at all technically minded.

Thank you

[Blicj11]

Southwye:

Congratulations on your new bit of kit. Glad you are back in the operational hardware category. We might be able to help, but need more information. If we get enough information on what you have and what's happening we can probably help.

What exactly is your issue? For example, what error messages are you seeing and what are you attempting to do when you see them? In other words, where are you in the setup process? Also, what specific Davis hardware did you purchase to replace your old VantagePro?