Author Topic: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?  (Read 16005 times)

elagache

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Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« on: October 10, 2014, 12:01:41 AM »
Dear WeatherCat Davis owners,

I normally trumpet how trouble-free Davis equipment is, but I've had a rough go this past 2 weeks or so.  It appears the root of the problem was a failing Davis Weather Envoy.  Early this morning (don't all failures happen while you are sleeping . . . . . . )  WeatherCat stopped receiving all station data.  I assumed I was having continued interference between of the transmitter ID I had selected.  However, it became clear that no matter which ID I selected, no data was reaching my Mac.  My VP-2 console was working fine, so in desperation I put the data logger back into the console and . . . everything worked once more.  So that seems to isolate the failed component clearly enough.

To try to minimize downtime, I went ahead and ordered another Weather Envoy.  For you penny pinchers out there, RainMan Weather beat everybody else by $50!!  If anyone is interested in a Weather Envoy, they seem to be on sale at RainMan Weather:

http://www.rainmanweather.com/site/products/6316-Wireless-Weather-Envoy-0

That leaves me with two questions:

1.) Did I do anything wrong to bring this failure down upon me?

This all started shortly after I replaced the batteries in my Envoy.  I do this as I always have: I leave the A/C adapter plugged in and swap the batteries.  I've never had a problem with this, but . . . . does anybody know if this is a mistake?

Any other thoughts about potential damaging activities?

2.) Should I send the old Envoy back to Davis to be repaired so I have a spare?

I've been pondering the Davis refurbishing plan and Herb's scheme to have one station on "ready reserve."  If I were to go this route I would need to have a spare Wireless Temperature/Humidity Station (6382) and Weather Envoy.  It is worth the hassle to see how much Davis would charge to repair this one?

Opinions solicited!! 

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Blicj11

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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 12:14:42 AM »
I will speak to the replacement issue. I replaced my 7-year-old VP2 with a VP2 Pro this past summer. I had at least two sensors going bad. I weighed things out and decided to buy a new unit (from Rainwise) rather than just refurb the old one. Then the brainless twits stole Herb's unit. I decided to send my old unit to Davis for a refurb to use as a backup. Davis refurbed it and sent it back. It's still in the box. My son-in-law wants me to give it to him when he buys a house. We'll see. I wonder what it would be like to have a family member as a fellow WeatherCatter.
Blick


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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2014, 07:52:34 AM »
Yeah! The brainless twits took the new one, too!  >:( I still haven't fixed the mungled leftovers. ? ?

Edouard, I think I would take it apart and look for obvious faults first; like a broken wire, etc? When I looked into replacing the cut wire on my munged solar radiation sensor, I discovered that the RJ-11 wires were soldered to the circuit board, impossibly too tiny to repair. I suppose I could just solder the wire, but I'm an instrument tech. I know that sensitive instruments can have an error introduced at the bi-metal junction. ? ?

A radio receiver where the signal is digital has no such issues, though. And, it's really a simple circuit by today's standards.
Herb

elagache

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I'll take a look, but pessmistic. (Was: Davis Weather Envoy failure)
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2014, 08:57:02 PM »
Hi Herb and WeatherCat weather instrument property owners,

Yeah! The brainless twits took the new one, too!  >:( I still haven't fixed the mungled leftovers. ?

Huh?  I'm confused.  Your station is updating to Weather Underground so you have cobbled something together.  What's not working?

Edouard, I think I would take it apart and look for obvious faults first

Okay, I'll take another look, but I'm rather pessimistic about this one.  It sure looked fine to me when I opened it and there were no errors in the communications with either WeatherCat or WeatherLink.  I think this puppy has a more serious "sickness." 

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 10:00:38 PM »
Yes, my station is working, from the older ISS  sans solar radiation sensor. Never got to send it back to Davis for refurbishment. The only issue it was having was the pressure sensor drifting. Using the new console took care of that. Will take on the expense of repairing the new ISS as funding becomes more abundant. Since the whole housing is missing, I'm afraid the cost will be the same as a new one.

As far as the Envoy is concerned, it couldn't hurt to take a gander at its innards. You know that something is wrong and that it used to be OK. In most cases, circuit boards are engineered to generous tolerances. When things go awry, it's either a manufacturing defect or the effect of wear. I would imagine that in your case, the Envoy doesn't receive much wear, if any, except in the wiring connecting to externals.

I once had a computer that worked for over a year, just sitting on my desk without being moved. Then it suddenly started acting flaky. It would work for awhile, then it wouldn't. After cooling off a bit, it would start working again. What I discovered was a cold solder joint on the power supply circuit board. Power supply was fine. It just needed to have that one connection re-soldered.

If it's a cold solder joint, then you can't do anything about it (unless it's a large enough circuit board) and even Davis will just toss it. But if a wire has broke, you might be able to fix it or use the knowledge of it to coax Davis into recognizing the issue as a factory defect.

That's just my thoughts on it. Probably not worth much, though.

Been raining here today. Got a 1/4 inch yesterday and 1.1 inch today. I need to eat, go refill the bird feeder, and did I say eat yet?
Herb

elagache

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The plot seriously thickens . . (Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2014, 10:48:31 PM »
Hi Herb and WeatherCat weather station troubleshooters,

Yes, my station is working, from the older ISS  sans solar radiation sensor. Never got to send it back to Davis for refurbishment. The only issue it was having was the pressure sensor drifting. Using the new console took care of that. Will take on the expense of repairing the new ISS as funding becomes more abundant. Since the whole housing is missing, I'm afraid the cost will be the same as a new one.

Okay, now I understand.  Yes, Davis is at least one of the best and alas that allows them to make us pay for it!!

As far as the Envoy is concerned, it couldn't hurt to take a gander at its innards.

Actually, I think I've been chasing a red herring.  I started having communication problems - yet again!   [banghead]  So I opened up the ISS and . . . this time checked the voltage on the battery.  My "brand new" battery was barely at 3 volts when a new 123 battery is closer to 3.5 volts.

Remember your warning about buying batteries that may have been sitting around for too long?  I still had a two-pack of 123 batteries bought from the local home improvement store, so I used those before starting the 8-pack from Amazon.  I did test each battery before using it, but I don't have any way to test a 3 volt battery under load.  After the problem with the ISS this morning, I also checked the voltage on the temperature and humidity station, it was less than 3 volts.  . . . .  Thankfully, I had bought an 8-pack from Amazon, so I immediately replaced those anemic specimens with the batteries you recommended.

So . . . . . I tried putting everything back as I originally had it and sure enough, both the VP-2 console and the Weather Envoy now seem to be working fine.  The only thing that is a bit odd, it takes something 5-10 minutes for each receiver to finally pick up the signal from the transmitters.  However, so far so good.

So hopefully I just have a case of bad batteries  :-[ and the new Envoy I just purchased will be returned as fast as I bought it!

Stay tuned!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: The plot seriously thickens . . (Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure)
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2014, 03:13:20 AM »
So hopefully I just have a case of bad batteries  :-[ and the new Envoy I just purchased will be returned as fast as I bought it!

You can buy a lot of batteries for the price of an Envoy. Hope that solves your problem.
Blick


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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2014, 08:56:50 AM »
Good going, Edouard! I hope that's the final plot twist in this awesome story. I wouldn't worry about the sync time. I've seen mine sync fast and slow on the same day.

A lot of batteries indeed, Blick! And hopefully, he don't have to buy them all on the same day.
Herb

elagache

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Batteries to blame - no more problems! (Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure)
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2014, 09:51:28 PM »
Dear Blick, Herb, and WeatherCat weather station caretakers,

You can buy a lot of batteries for the price of an Envoy. Hope that solves your problem.

Good going, Edouard! I hope that's the final plot twist in this awesome story. I wouldn't worry about the sync time. I've seen mine sync fast and slow on the same day.

Everything has been working perfectly ever since.  The old Weather Envoy is doing it's thing, so indeed either I somehow manage to refuse the shipment or I'll change the labels and send the new one back.

The home improvement store were I bought the batteries has been having financial problems for some years and finally had to file for bankruptcy.  I suspect that they were shuffling old inventory to put something on the shelves and the batteries I had bought were very old and perhaps abused by poor storage.

Sure am glad to be past this misery!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 07:11:34 PM »
I recently broke down after all these years and bought myself a volt meter. I have always borrowed one from a friend. Last week I needed one in a hurry. I walked into a Sears store and theirs were all on sale at 50% off. Now I own one and will be testing all battery purchases at the store!
Blick


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Volt meter an imperfect test. (Was: Envoy failure)
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 08:51:03 PM »
Dear Blick and WeatherCat budding electricians,

I recently broke down after all these years and bought myself a volt meter.

It is definitely better than nothing, but there is a catch when it comes to testing batteries and that's exactly what caught me in my recent station problems.  It isn't enough to test battery voltage, you need to test the voltage when the battery is actually providing current to a load (like a resistor.)  My meter (ironically also from Sears) has a special mode for testing 1.5 volt and 9 volt batteries that includes a load resistor.  Alas, it doesn't have anything to test a 3 volt battery like the Lithium 123 batteries for a Davis station.

When I replaced the 123 batteries back in September, I was cautious enough to check the battery voltage, but that was without any load.   The voltage was okay, so I believed the batteries were okay.  I can't recall having a new sealed package of batteries ever being defective - until now.  Fortunately, I remembered Herb's warnings so when I started getting sensor errors once more, I double-checked the battery voltage and  . . . . discovered the source of my station's problems.

So by all means do test batteries, under a load if your volt meter supports that.  In those cases where you can't make a load test, be aware of the scenario that has befallen me and if a device with new batteries starts to have problems - check the batteries again!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S. We use enough AA and AAA batteries that we buy those at Costco.  Warehouse stores are probably a safe place to buy at least popular battery types because of their high sales volume.

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Re: Volt meter an imperfect test. (Was: Envoy failure)
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 09:01:11 PM »
So by all means do test batteries, under a load if your volt meter supports that.  In those cases where you can't make a load test, be aware of the scenario that has befallen me and if a device with new batteries starts to have problems - check the batteries again!

When you checked your batteries again, I assume you tested them without a load, and this time, they failed. Is this correct?

We use enough AA and AAA batteries that we buy those at Costco.  Warehouse stores are probably a safe place to buy at least popular battery types because of their high sales volume.

I am a huge Costco fan, but have had nothing but trouble with their Kirkland brand batteries. So now I only buy their Duracell batteries. I assumed they were made in the same plant, but now I wonder because there is a definite quality difference.
Blick


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Re: Volt meter an imperfect test. (Was: Envoy failure)
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 04:03:41 AM »
P.S. We use enough AA and AAA batteries that we buy those at Costco.  Warehouse stores are probably a safe place to buy at least popular battery types because of their high sales volume.

We have switched almost all of our AA and AAA alkaline battery use to Sanyo Eneloop NiMH pre-charged batteries. Unlike most rechargeable batteries, Eneloop (and other pre-charged batteries) maintain a charge for extended periods. After one year sitting unused. they still have 80% charge, and 65% after 3 years. I have the new Ambient Weather "smart" battery charger (did you get one, Edouard?) that works great with the Eneloop batteries.

Steve
Steve - Avon, Ohio, USA


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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 07:00:32 AM »
Ay, Captain Steve. ? I've changed to Eneloop for all my rechargeable AA's as well. I don't use rechargeable AAA's yet. Bought my first 16 pack on February 10, 2011 at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00478GE1U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Excellent batteries. Still going strong.  [rockon]

At the same time, I bought this most excellent charger. Eight INDEPENDENT charging circuits; Soft & rapid charge; battery conditioning. If ye take care of ye batteries, they'll be takin' care of you!  [lol]


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LQMKDS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Herb

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Re: Davis Weather Envoy failure - any advice?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 03:47:23 PM »
Steve & Herb:

Thanks for the info on rechargeable batteries and chargers.

Are either of you using rechargeable batteries in your ISS or in your Davis console?
Blick