Station Upgrade but which one?

[philyoung]

So, after 18 months my super cheap station anemometer has seized. Time then, for an upgrade, but I'm struggling to choose between a Vantage Vue and a VP2? I could get the VP2 anemometer on a pole on the chimney at a price but it wouldn't exactly be easy to get to if anything went wrong. I could get the ISS for a Vue about 3m up but that presumably wouldn't be too good for temperature readings. The VP2 will be about ?300 more than a Vue so is it really that much better? Anybody used both to give me any help? Thanks

Phil

[elagache]

Hi Phil!

So, after 18 months my super cheap station anemometer has seized.

Well my sympathies.  I had an Oregon Scientific 968 station that did the same thing to me.  That's what made me upgrade to a Davis station.  At the time though, the Vantage Vue didn't exist - so my choices were simpler.

Time then, for an upgrade, but I'm struggling to choose between a Vantage Vue and a VP2? I could get the VP2 anemometer on a pole on the chimney at a price but it wouldn't exactly be easy to get to if anything went wrong. I could get the ISS for a Vue about 3m up but that presumably wouldn't be too good for temperature readings. The VP2 will be about ?300 more than a Vue so is it really that much better? Anybody used both to give me any help?

Let me first suggest that you read through two forum threads that might give you some inspiration.  There is some manuals on how to set up a weather station that you'll find on this thread:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=438.0

Then you'll find how some of us WeatherCat users have set up on weather stations on this thread:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.0

Now on to your question.  As I've said, I don't have a Vantage Vue, but I think I can help you weigh your options.  The main idea you need to consider is whether or not you'll be satisfied with the data you collect if everything has to be collected from one location.  As you suggest, the problem is that the anemometer is best located as high as possible.  On the other hand, the rain gauge really needs to be located where you can periodically clean it.  That is a strong argument for the Vantage Pro-2 line.  Of course that depends on where you can locate your rain gauge and how much debris you are likely to get into it.  Since you already have a station, you can probably assess that for yourself.  My rain gauge is secured to a second story rail and should avoid a lot of debris, but I have to clean it periodically.  So use that as another data point.

If you can find a single location that can collect the data you want, then there is no reason to pay more than a Vantage Vue.  Largely it will depend on the ground around your home.  If you like, posting a few photos may help us give you some advice one way or the other.  Also, giving us some idea of the general weather conditions could also help in the selection. 

Another issue you should consider is how accurate you want your outdoor temperatures to be.  When I bought my Davis station, I already had a scheme to provide a substantial solar radiation shield to avoid inflated high temperature readings.  Davis makes a very effective shield that uses a fan to accomplish the same thing.  It is more expensive, but if you want high accuracy, you'll find the time necessary to rig up a radiation shield might well consume an equivalent amount of money for the Davis model with the fan aspirated shield.  Of course if you aren't that much of a stickler for temperature accuracy - as the old saying goes: "if you don't mind - it don't matter."  Once more the general weather in your area could be a factor.  If you are in a desert setting, the difference between the fan aspirated shield and the standard shield could be enormous.  If you have a more variable climate with frequent clouds - perhaps that isn't as much of an issue.

Finally, do shop around for your Davis station which ever one you choose.  There are a number of vendors and prices do vary.  You might find that if you can locate an outfit that discounts heavily, you can afford more weather station than you realized.

I hope this is a start.  Hopefully other members of the forum will contribute their own thoughts on the matter.

Best of luck in your weather station upgrade! 

Cheers, Edouard 

[philyoung]

Many thanks Edouard. Randall75's set up I could easily replicate. My current station is mounted on a post and I could easily fix a long pole to it to get an anemometer higher without going to the expense of getting someone to fix it to a mast on the chimney (I'm no good at heights).

I'm on the South coast of England, so a temperate climate without big extremes of temperature. I don't have lots of options for positioning the ISS as I live in a terraced house in the middle of a city with a small garden. The ISS would need to be post mounted and would be over a wooden deck.

I'm leaning towards a VP2 at the moment.

[jace]

Hi Phil.

I have used both Davis stations, presently using the Pro 2, as I had firmware problems with the Vue that made me return the Vue to Amazon and buy the Pro 2 from a weather specialist.

Presonally I prefered the Vue ISS for it's size in a small garden, it's less intrusive visually, I feel the Pro 2 ISS is too big for small UK plots.

Main differences apart from size, and cost; The Vue can only use one supplementary sensor, it's possible to but a seperate anemometer and wireless transmitter so the ISS can be at a reasonable height for rain and temperature readings and the supplememtary anemometer mouted higher for higher wind readings. If you wish soil, leaf solar/uv sensors, radiation fan etc you have to go for the Pro 2.

Both units ISS sensors give the same degree of accuracy.

The Vue console is smaller than the Pro 2 console, but I found he Pro-2 console has a far better port for the data logger, The logger in the Vue console was always coming loose, it was not a tight fit at all, if you opened the battery compartment, and turned the console right side up, the logger would fall out.The Pro-2 port is far more secure, so far I have not had one comms error, where as I was getting 10 -20 per day with the Vue.

The Vue console firmware better than the Pro 2. An example is rain gauge calibration. With the Vue it's software driven via the console where you can adjust by up to plus/minus 25 %. The Pro-2 I see is manual adjustment of a stop under the gauge buckets

Remember if you buy a Davis you will have to buy the Data logger this will cost in the region of ?200 in the UK. Make sure you buy the Mac version, not the Windoze. Also make sure it's the "green dot" version on the box, ths is the new data logger compatable with new Davis stations.

Couple of dealers to look at here in the UK are: Prodata here in East Anglia - www.weatherstations.co.uk. John is very good, very helpful, lots of info about weather stations in particular Davis.

Another is: Weather Weather Weather  - http://www.weather-station-products.co.uk, I have not used them myself, but they have a deal on the Vue at the moment.

You have the official UK reseller and repair agent on your doorstep ! it's: McMurdo Group, Portsmouth, UK
Phone: +44 23 9262 3900,  sales@mcmurdo.co.uk
You should be able to vist and view both stations before making up your mind.

Drop me a PM or ring me if you wish more info Phil. Best to all.

JC

[philyoung]

Cheers John. I had found the pro data website and they do the VP2 with data logger for ?669 at the moment. Didn't realise the importers were in Pompey! Just how big is a VP2 ISS then?

Not sure about extra sensors. I have solar panels and can easily monitor their output and don't think a UV sensor would be of much interest. Might think about extra temperature sensors for the greenhouse and the pond but they are hardly essential!

If I get a vue and and a second anemometer would I not be spending nearly as much as a VP2 anyway?

Phil

[Blicj11]

Just how big is a VP2 ISS then?

Phil, the dimensions for the VP2 ISS are as follows:

• Models 6152 and 6162 are 11.00" x 9.38" x 14.00" (279 mm x 238 mm x 355 mm)
• Models 6153 and 6163 are 11.00" x 9.38" x 21.00" (279 mm x 238 mm x 533 mm)
• Model 6152 weighs 5.7 lbs. (2.6 kg)
• Model 6162 weighs 6.1 lbs. (2.6 kg)
• Model 6153 weighs 8.6 lbs. (3.9 kg)
• Model 6163 weighs 9 lbs. (4.1 kg)

[elagache]

Hi Phil, Jace, Blick, and WeatherCat fans,

Not sure about extra sensors. I have solar panels and can easily monitor their output and don't think a UV sensor would be of much interest.

Just a bit of information that still might not apply much to your situation, but just for the sake of completeness.  If you get the solar radiation sensor for the Davis Vantage Pro-2 line, then it will not only report the solar radiation (obviously,) but will estimate the amount of moisture plants are using via the Penman?Monteith equation.  This value, called evapotranspiration (or ET) gives you some estimate of how much watering you need to do.

It is an imperfect tool and you are in a part of the world where watering isn't as ongoing like parched California.  Still, if you are an avid gardener, it is something to consider.  I've found watching the evapotranspiration numbers allows me to better anticipate what plants need.  In California we can days that feel cool and windy, but have enough sunshine that the plants consume more water than I "feel" from my being outside.

For your information!

Cheers, Edouard 

[Blicj11]

For your information!

Edouard, as always, thanks for taking the time to explain. It's very helpful to the rest of us who are trying to come up to speed.

[elagache]

Hi Blick and WeatherCat gardeners

Edouard, as always, thanks for taking the time to explain. It's very helpful to the rest of us who are trying to come up to speed.

Well, as long as I'm explaining! 

Anyone who is interested in evapotranspiration can explore its utility without spending money on fancy weather station software.  My WC ET Reporter AppleScript will compute a simpler estimate of evapotranspiration using data that every weather station provides.  Information my AppleScripts can be found on the WeatherCat Wiki:

http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Integration

Wikipedia has a good introduction to evapotranspiration:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evapotranspiration

There are two common formulas used to estimate evapotranspiration:

• Penman-Monteith - Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penman-Monteith
• Blaney-Criddle - Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaney-Criddle_equation

As those articles will explain the Blaney-Criddle equation is known to be a crude estimate.  Fortunately, it tends to give reasonable results in dry errand regions were drought is a problem.    So the places were conserving water is most important can still benefit from the Blaney-Criddle estimates.

My AppleScript computes the Blaney-Criddle estmate and compiles statistics on the Penman-Monteith estimate if you have a Davis Vantage Pro-2 station with a radiation sensor.  Out here in California, most of the time the two estimates are within 0.01" of each other.  When WeatherCat users in other parts of the United States have made the comparison, as expected the Blaney-Criddle estmates would be way off.

Still, if you enjoy gardening, it is another useful tool.

Cheers, Edouard 

[Doc]

You can't go wrong with the Davis equipment.  I look at how well mine has worked over the 8 years that I've been running it.  Everything is original equipment.  The Anemometer/Wind Vane have been up for the whole time and still work well.  The only problems I've had with anything has been when the sensors are covered with ice (it's INDIANA, we get ice).  I've done some modifications to the ISS, but it stays on the back fence at 4 feet and works nicely there.  The wires to the wind sensors have held up well and the only problem I've ever has was with the ISS batteries.  Now that I get them in bulk from Amazon things have worked out much better. 

I always look at how well these systems work over the long term and I've found that the Davis equipment, old or new works the longest.  They don't like to be hit by trees when mounted on a truck traveling at speed, the wind sensors try to leap out of the way, but the hungry trees always eat them right off the truck.   

I have been using a VP2 with WeatherCat all along, and they are the best.  I've used a Monitor II in my truck and a Wizard in the truck.  Right now I have the Monitor II ISS in the truck but no wind sensors (YET)

I also have an old (vintage) weather system I'm using in the truck, it was made by Digitar and called their Weather Master system.    This company was the basis of the Davis company, either they became Davis or were bought out by Davis, nobody seems sure.  But it's a very nice system. 

Good luck!

Doc

[philyoung]

Thanks to everyone for the information. I hadn't really considered ET estimates Edouard even though I am a fairly keen gardner. Partly, as you say, because the South of England isn't as parched as California and also because my interest is pretty much in xeric plants so I have Agave, Yucca, Nolina etc so pretty much the only place I water is in the greenhouse. That said if I get a VP2 at least I can add a solar radiation sensor later if I change my mind. Encouraging to hear the Davis equipment is very reliable as it is quite an investment and as always, seems to be much more expensive here than in the USA.

[elagache]

Dear Phil and WeatherCat gardeners,

I hadn't really considered ET estimates Edouard even though I am a fairly keen gardner. Partly, as you say, because the South of England isn't as parched as California and also because my interest is pretty much in xeric plants so I have Agave, Yucca, Nolina etc so pretty much the only place I water is in the greenhouse.

That is rather what I suspected, but it is always worth a mention.  In the end, the best way to water is to keep an eye on your plants and see when they are dry!  ET data is only another indicator that can be helpful in anticipating watering needs.

 

That said if I get a VP2 at least I can add a solar radiation sensor later if I change my mind.

Yes indeed, I also started with a basic VP2 and ended up adding the radiation sensor a few years later.

Best of luck in selecting your weather station! 

Cheers, Edouard 

[Blicj11]

Encouraging to hear the Davis equipment is very reliable as it is quite an investment and as always, seems to be much more expensive here than in the USA.

Phil, just my two pence worth on Davis. My setup is 7 years old and I just barely replaced the original battery in the ISS unit. One of my sensors (barometric pressure) is now starting to give me some questionable results. I am more than pleased with the quality of the console and ISS. I don't think much of Davis software but obviously with WeatherCat, I don't need it so I don't really care about its lack of 21st century look and feel. I know Davis costs more than some other manufacturers, but I think over the long haul, it is worth the premium. I know several people in my area who have spent the equivalent of ?60 on a personal weather station, only to have one or more of the sensors fail within 18 months and they have to buy new unit. One such unit a few miles away from me is down for repairs at least three times a month. Too much hassle. You get the value for which you pay.

Best of luck,

[philyoung]

My own station was only ?50, so I don't mind that it hasn't lasted too long. I bought it because I wasn't sure how interesting I would find the data. Now I know that making a bigger investment is worth it, but sometimes you can pay a lot more for something and find the quality isn't there, so its useful to know others have found the Davis equipment very reliable. I will go and have a look at both a Vue and a VP2 to see if I would find the ISS on the VP2 too intrusive.

[philyoung]

Well it took me a bit of a while to decide and then to get around to it but my new VP2 is now up and running, thanks for all the advice

Phil