Author Topic: Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.  (Read 5826 times)

elagache

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Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.
« on: February 24, 2014, 09:40:13 PM »
Dear WeatherCat fans,

There are news reports that we are headed for a period of El Nino conditions starting in fall of this year.  Here is one news report:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/21/us-el-nino-commodities-idUSBREA1K0IN20140221

I tried to find some sort of scientific report on this but came up empty.  Those of you effected by El Nino, well I suppose you have been warned.  Alas, things are not as simple as past experience would suggest.  In California, La Nina conditions traditionally bring drought.  However, 2010 was a very strong La Nina and yet we got much above average rainfall that year.  The 2013-14 drought has been under neutral conditions.

So, . . . . I suppose we must all take this news with a rather large grain of salt! . . . . . . .

 ;) . . .  Except for those on salt restricted diets of course! . . .  ;D

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

HantaYo

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Re: Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 12:47:09 AM »
Let us pray for El Nino  [snow]

elagache

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Probably better to pray for precipitation!! (Re: El Nino starting next fall.)
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2014, 09:19:08 PM »
Hi Jeff and WeatherCat fans,

Let us pray for El Nino  [snow]

Well, I would agree with you if . . . . . . I was sure what an El Nino would bring!

I think at this point we should just pray for what we need  [rain2] and let the weather gods decide on the mechanism of their own choosing!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 01:56:17 AM »
Please do no shake my faith in El Nino.  We go back 4 decades to the winter of 72/73.  If he comes, it will be wet and snowy.  There is a Santa Clause?

elagache

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El Nino watch issued. (Re: El Nino starting next fall.)
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2014, 12:29:24 AM »
Dear WeatherCat observers of El Nino,

The National Weather Service has now issued an "El Nino Watch" for the summer and fall of 2014.  I didn't know they had such a system as an "El Nino Watch", but I suppose they do at least now.  There is document provided for the San Francisco Bay Area that describes the situation:

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/media/mtr/online_pubs/press_release/ElNinoFactSheet.pdf

As I sadly reported, an El Nino does not guarantee above average rainfall.  This document goes into gory detail noting that.

Oh well, . . . .

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2014, 01:48:00 AM »
When it comes to the weather, nothing is guaranteed.  It all about the averages but with global warming might be bygone statistics with little current relevance.

elagache

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Hi Jeff and WeatherCat climate watchers,

When it comes to the weather, nothing is guaranteed.  It all about the averages but with global warming might be bygone statistics with little current relevance.

You point is well taken.  Alas, I think the political correctness police have made another linguistic coup with the renaming of "global warming" to "climate change".  Alas, I really have the feeling that our "rocket science caliber" climate change scientists - are a little short where the ruler would insist they should be.  I've already ranted too much about my frustrations that climate computer models aren't helping us predict things like the current drought situation in the west.  However, science has always been bidirectional.  You can go from theory to predict data.  You can also look at your empirical observations to come up with better theories.

At least in my area the climate has noticeably changed in a matter that is now stable year to year.  The most dramatic change is the radical reduction in the amount of foggy days that once was a landmark of the San Francisco Bay area.  Scientists should be able to provide explanations for this and use that to bootstrap better forecasting.  Yet, it seems really clear that they are at least as baffled as we are.  Any authority in climate change should have spend 5-10 years getting a PhD and then have all the experience of their working careers.  You mean to tell me that will that understanding of how the climate work they don't have much more insight into the situation than us amateur weather watchers?  :o

There are times when I wonder if the only thing worse then being forced out of academia would be to to succeed and discover out horribly mediocre it has become.

Edouard

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Re: Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 07:50:36 AM »
Pavement is the anti-fog.

Sorry. I tried to make my thesis longer, but I rejected each draft before it was finished.

OK. Here's the academic version.

Climatological Effects in the San Francisco Bay area as it Relates to Lower Incidences of Fog

This paper is about the increased lack of fog in the San Francisco Bay area.

The more pavement there is across the landscape, the more thermal loading there is from solar activity. Higher temperatures decrease relative humidity, leading to less fog.

So, as we have discovered in this paper, pavement is the anti-fog.

(Oh wait. Got to have some numbers)

1 - Pavement
0 - Fog

 [coffee]
Herb
Herb

elagache

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Howdy Herb and WeatherCat climate researchers,

Pavement is the anti-fog.

Nice try, but unfortunately that cannot even be remotely plausible.  California has been broke since about the time I got my Ph.D. (19 years ago.)  So there has been very little new road construction.  However, two decades ago the fog came in and out as I always known it to.  The change I'm talking about is extremely recent, around 5 years ago.

 ;) . . . Now you could pursue two other hypotheses:

  • I put up my weather station about 5 years ago, so perhaps weather stations repel fog!  :o
  • On the other hand, not only does California not have much in the way of new roads, the old ones are in about the same conditions as of those in Eastern Europe.  Could it be the fog doesn't come any more because it was driving in and doesn't own a SUV tough enough to make the trip?  ::)

 [biggrin]

If this keeps up I might have to go back and actually listen to those self-proclaimed weather experts!  ::)

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Forecast for an El Nino starting next fall.
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 09:54:59 PM »
 :-\ Oh. OK. I had in mind parking lots as much as roads, but I thought the time line was longer. 5 years is not very long. That sounds like it could just be cyclic variability?

I guess there'll be no publishing royalties to look forward to.  :'(

I like the SUV theory. Perhaps the fog is just getting lost in the pot holes.

 [goofy]
Herb
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elagache

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Oddities and the pothole slalom (Re: El Nino starting next fall.)
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2014, 07:50:21 PM »
Howdy Herb and WeatherCat climate watchers,

:-\ Oh. OK. I had in mind parking lots as much as roads, but I thought the time line was longer. 5 years is not very long. That sounds like it could just be cyclic variability?

Obviously it could be.  However, it is very bizarre, something that was so much a signature feature of the San Francisco Bay area just about disappeared and nobody seems to have noticed.  I suppose the people in San Francisco aren't complaining because ultimately they were truly too cold in the summer.  Even if Mark Twain didn't say it:

The coldest winter I ever had was a summer in San Francisco!

Used to really ring true! 

I like the SUV theory. Perhaps the fog is just getting lost in the pot holes.

*Sniff*, . . . .  and that ain't whistling Dixie - brother!!  >:(

I suppose everybody has gotten very good at driving the pothole slalom nowadays . . . . .

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]