Author Topic: From W/m2 to kWh  (Read 6179 times)

iccb

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From W/m2 to kWh
« on: April 16, 2021, 12:43:12 PM »
Hi all,

I'm thinking is there way to use synthetic channels to convert daily kWh from measured solar radiation? I have Davis vantage pro 2 and trying to figure the conversion to kWh...

elagache

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Need consistent units. (Re: From W/m2 to kWh)
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 11:42:31 PM »
Dear iccb and WeatherCat observers of the sun,

I'm thinking is there way to use synthetic channels to convert daily kWh from measured solar radiation? I have Davis vantage pro 2 and trying to figure the conversion to kWh...

Unfortunately, you'll need to clarify your units in order to accomplish what you want.  What Davis is reporting is watts per square meter.  That means if you had a panel 1x1 meter, what the sensor is reporting is the number of watts of solar energy are falling upon it.  That's raw energy, solar panels aren't 100% efficient.  If you had a solar array 1 meter square you would get substantially less electricity.

The unit you are trying to convert to is kilowatts (103 watts) • hours.  That, believe it or not is a measure of energy - not power.  The definition of a watt is 1 joule per second.    What you are seeking is 1000 Joules/seconds • 1 hour.  To make everything consistent, convert 1 hour into 3600 seconds.  How you can resolve the dimensions:


1000 Joules • 3600 seconds/1 second = 3600000 Joules. 

Yes, I have a bachelor's degree in Physics which is why I can crunch through all this dimensional analysis as it is called.

Returning to your problem, your goal of getting Kilowatt•hours is actually attempting to determine out much energy (I presume) you could get out of a solar array exposed to the sun for some period of time.  As already mentioned, if you already have a solar setup installed, you would need to know how efficient it is.  If you are simply considering such a thing, you would need to get the same information from the vendors you are considering.

The next question I must leave for you to answer.  Why are you interested in the amount of energy you could collect over some length of time?  Is your plan to store this energy in a battery?  Otherwise, for most household solar installations the main point of interest is the amount of power and is it sufficient to power things like your central air conditioner. 

As long as you are looking into a solar installation where you remain connected to the grid, the issue is cost.  The more you can rely on your solar, the less you'll need to pay your utility for electricity.  Nonetheless, without some sort of battery, you'll always be paying for power when there is no sunshine.  Even without precise quantities, a graph of your solar radiation should open your eyes about what can and cannot be accomplished with solar power.

If you have aspirations to go off the grid, that's a much more difficult nut to crack.  In order to do that, you need to deal with cloudy days, smoke from wildfires, and so on.  If your batteries run low, then you need to get power from somewhere else or go without electricity.

I'd better stop here, but I hope this sort of issue is more complex and mathematically thorny than most people realize.

Cheers, Edouard

mcrossley

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Re: From W/m2 to kWh
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 07:03:09 PM »
The other thing to consider is that the Davis is measuring the value for a horizontal surface, you would normally angle your solar panels to be more efficient. What effect this has also requires to know which direction the panels will face - optimally South for max energy generation, but not always achievable.
Mark

elagache

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Overview of the issues from RV perspective. (Re: From W/m2 to kWh)
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 10:37:12 PM »
Dear iccb, Mark, and WeatherCat wannabee roadtrip warriors,

I've made no secret my dream of pulling a vintage Airstream travel trailer with my trusty 1965 Buick Special wagon.  Since I have time before jumping into such a project, I have made a point to educate myself on as many different aspects of the RV lifestyle as I good.  RV magazine has a number of email subscriptions and they had this article on the logistics of running an RV air conditioner using a solar setup.  While it applies to the ultimate "tiny home," it gives a good overview of all the issues associated with attempting put your house completely off the grid using solar:

https://campersmarts.com/solar-power-for-rv-air-conditioners

It also should be a wake-up-call about the costs involved.  If you'll spend $10,000 just to provide a sufficient setup for an RV, be prepared to spend at least 5-10 times that for a house.

Cheers, Edouard

iccb

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Re: From W/m2 to kWh
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 03:56:54 PM »
Hi all!

Thank's to everyone for great answers! I just try to figure how much in theory I can get kWh in 1 square meter. I don't have any solar panels at this time...

The Grand Poohbah

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Re: From W/m2 to kWh
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 05:08:22 PM »
Hi all!

Thank's to everyone for great answers! I just try to figure how much in theory I can get kWh in 1 square meter. I don't have any solar panels at this time...

Solar installer have instruments that will measure and calculate your potential solar power yield.

elagache

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Still need consistent units. (Re: From W/m2 to kWh)
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 11:13:36 PM »
Dear iccb, Grand, and WeatherCat sun worshipers,

Thank's to everyone for great answers! I just try to figure how much in theory I can get kWh in 1 square meter. I don't have any solar panels at this time...

Okay, but you still need to decide what you mean by kilowatt hours.  As noted above, a kilowatt hour is actually a measure of energy.  The simplest answer to your question is take the output from your solar radiation sensor, divide it by 1000 (since you want kilowatts) and then multiply by 3600 (1 hour in seconds.)

That will give the amount of energy your 1 meter square panel would have accumulated after exposure to that amount of sunlight in 1 hour.

Unfortunately, that isn't very realistic.  Here is a graph I happen to have from March 13, 2017 of my radiation sensor:



The amount of solar radiation varies considerably during the day.  In just one hour, the output dropped by about 10% from peak.  To get a better estimate, the right thing to do is to compute the "integral" (think calculus) of the radiation over that hour.  To do this by hand, you could start by getting the value for radiation (WeatherCat Live Data has the actual numeric value) and multiplying that by some smaller period.  For example, you could get the value every 5 minutes and multiply the value times 300 (300 seconds in a minute.)  Then repeat the process every 5 minutes getting the current value of solar radiation at that time.  Then add up values for the intervals to get the total amount of energy that fell on your sensor in that hour.

Unfortunately, that's why it is difficult to implement as a WeatherCat synthetic channel.  There isn't any way to retain the previous values in a AppleScript synthetic channel.  I have dome something similar where I wrote a stand-alone AppleScript that computes something like this integral and then stored the result as a number in file.  This is the technique I used to keep track of WeatherCat memory use.  Alas, it requires some involved AppleScript development and AppleScript is harder to use with macOS security restrictions.  I think it could be done, but it wouldn't be easy.

I hope that's some help.

Cheers, Edouard