Author Topic: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs  (Read 7212 times)

Xipper

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Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« on: December 19, 2020, 09:49:42 PM »
I am trying to find any viable solutions to continue using Weathercat now that I am getting rid of my 2013 Mac Pro in favor of a Mac min with the Apple M1 CPU.  We all know SiLabs has done a crappy job of supporting MacOS, so I am looking for alternative options to connect.  I cannot justify $200 for a new interface module from Davis, I am going to attempt to just make a serial port adapter using an FTDI RS232 adapter.  I was able to find what appears to be the right connector to insert into the back of the Davis console, I realize I will lose "logging" on the console with this solution.

I think I am willing to give up the logging and losing some reliability of my weather data (e.g. when computer reboots for maintenance) in exchange for going from using 100W of power 24x7 to <10W.  Currently my MacPro is burning >110W to just run Weathercat, as everything else has been moved to my Mac mini. 

The current Davis "official" option would be the official Davis serial data logger (Davis 6510SER) and then connecting that serial port to an FTDI.

It seems that Scaled Instruments offers a few other options, but I am not confident any of those would be easy to utilize with Weathercat.  They have a WiFi based logger, though it is supposedly compatible with WeatherLink IP...so perhaps Weathercat would connect with it without hassle?  The final, more complicated/risky option is the Raspberry Pi HAT they offer...perhaps we could connect to the remote serial port over the network via the Raspberry Pi.

elagache

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Cost benefit? (Re: Solutions for Davis and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2020, 10:39:49 PM »
Dear Xipper and WeatherCat cost benefit analyzers,

. . . .
I think I am willing to give up the logging and losing some reliability of my weather data (e.g. when computer reboots for maintenance) in exchange for going from using 100W of power 24x7 to <10W.  Currently my MacPro is burning >110W to just run Weathercat, as everything else has been moved to my Mac mini. 
. . . .

Perhaps the first question you should ask is exactly what is the cost to you of running your Mac Pro.  It wasn't that long ago that 100 watts was a standard light bulb.  While 10 watts is 1/10 the power consumption, what really matters to you is what difference does that make for your life.  You can get your power consumption from any monthly bill.  Would eliminating that one computer ultimately made all that much of a difference?  Before you send any money on a hardware upgrade, how many months/years of running that computer would be required to pay for the upgrade?

It isn't as academic as it might seem.  Silicon labs might well update their driver given enough time.  Is it worth the effort to shuffle all you have now when time could be on your side?


. . . .
It seems that Scaled Instruments offers a few other options, but I am not confident any of those would be easy to utilize with Weathercat.  They have a WiFi based logger, though it is supposedly compatible with WeatherLink IP...so perhaps Weathercat would connect with it without hassle? 
. . . .

I can't recall the instance, but I believe someone has successfully gotten WeatherCat to work with WiFi based logger from Scaled Instruments.  You might try searching the forum to find that instance.  Of the options you are considering, that is probably the least painful.  If you are worried about the matter, you can always check on the return policy and make sure to keep the packaging in good shape just in case.

Sorry, not everyone has been able to keep up with Apple's rate of progress.  Like so many other things these days, such are the conditions that prevail.

Edouard

Xipper

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Re: Cost benefit? (Re: Solutions for Davis and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs)
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 01:08:04 AM »
Dear Xipper and WeatherCat cost benefit analyzers,

Perhaps the first question you should ask is exactly what is the cost to you of running your Mac Pro.  It wasn't that long ago that 100 watts was a standard light bulb.  While 10 watts is 1/10 the power consumption, what really matters to you is what difference does that make for your life.  You can get your power consumption from any monthly bill.  Would eliminating that one computer ultimately made all that much of a difference?  Before you send any money on a hardware upgrade, how many months/years of running that computer would be required to pay for the upgrade?

It isn't as academic as it might seem.  Silicon labs might well update their driver given enough time.  Is it worth the effort to shuffle all you have now when time could be on your side?

What is the cost/benefit of any of this, I'm not a paid meteorologist :P In this case, I have the replacement Mac in hand and everything but Weathercat was migrated in the background while I was working for the day job on my laptop. The upgrade isn't just driven by the power savings, that is a nice side bonus.  I pay about 16-cents per kWh, so the Mac Pro costs about 55-75 cents per day to operate and it turns out the mini even uses less (typically using just 5W!) and the Mac Pro actually uses more than I had estimated.  It averages to >$200 energy savings annually will be a nice benefit, reducing the heat load in my office in the summer months will be even more so.  I was also just able to sell the Mac Pro for most of the cost of the Mac mini, so at this point the power savings are just lining my pocket with benefit in the cost/benefit ratio :D

The actual "pay back" in energy savings will be far less than the lifespan of the hardware, it also makes my UPS have a longer runtime as another bonus...as the UPS will now run dead from its internal drain faster than the mini will draw energy out.

Quote from: elagache
Sorry, not everyone has been able to keep up with Apple's rate of progress.  Like so many other things these days, such are the conditions that prevail.

SiLabs has always been less than reliable for driver support, it just too bad Davis went with the SiLabs serial port rather than one of the many lower cost and more reliable options that have broader support (e.g. FTDI).

I ended up ordering a 3rd party logger and will have it after Christmas, my weather station will just be offline until then and I won't lose any sleep over it as there is zero payback on the weather station or the hardware, I also need replacement batteries for the station that won't arrive for a few days so the unreliability aligns with it being down anyhow 🤷‍♂️  If I can't get it to work with Weathercat I will just accept it and move on, and utilize Wunderground for my historical data.  I will share if it "works" to help others that encounter this issue which was the intent of starting the thread 😉

ColdnFrosty

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Re: Cost benefit? (Re: Solutions for Davis and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs)
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 04:38:40 PM »
Have you tried this solution:

https://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=3196.msg30962#msg30962


Dear Xipper and WeatherCat cost benefit analyzers,

Perhaps the first question you should ask is exactly what is the cost to you of running your Mac Pro.  It wasn't that long ago that 100 watts was a standard light bulb.  While 10 watts is 1/10 the power consumption, what really matters to you is what difference does that make for your life.  You can get your power consumption from any monthly bill.  Would eliminating that one computer ultimately made all that much of a difference?  Before you send any money on a hardware upgrade, how many months/years of running that computer would be required to pay for the upgrade?

It isn't as academic as it might seem.  Silicon labs might well update their driver given enough time.  Is it worth the effort to shuffle all you have now when time could be on your side?

What is the cost/benefit of any of this, I'm not a paid meteorologist :P In this case, I have the replacement Mac in hand and everything but Weathercat was migrated in the background while I was working for the day job on my laptop. The upgrade isn't just driven by the power savings, that is a nice side bonus.  I pay about 16-cents per kWh, so the Mac Pro costs about 55-75 cents per day to operate and it turns out the mini even uses less (typically using just 5W!) and the Mac Pro actually uses more than I had estimated.  It averages to >$200 energy savings annually will be a nice benefit, reducing the heat load in my office in the summer months will be even more so.  I was also just able to sell the Mac Pro for most of the cost of the Mac mini, so at this point the power savings are just lining my pocket with benefit in the cost/benefit ratio :D

The actual "pay back" in energy savings will be far less than the lifespan of the hardware, it also makes my UPS have a longer runtime as another bonus...as the UPS will now run dead from its internal drain faster than the mini will draw energy out.

Quote from: elagache
Sorry, not everyone has been able to keep up with Apple's rate of progress.  Like so many other things these days, such are the conditions that prevail.

SiLabs has always been less than reliable for driver support, it just too bad Davis went with the SiLabs serial port rather than one of the many lower cost and more reliable options that have broader support (e.g. FTDI).

I ended up ordering a 3rd party logger and will have it after Christmas, my weather station will just be offline until then and I won't lose any sleep over it as there is zero payback on the weather station or the hardware, I also need replacement batteries for the station that won't arrive for a few days so the unreliability aligns with it being down anyhow 🤷‍♂️  If I can't get it to work with Weathercat I will just accept it and move on, and utilize Wunderground for my historical data.  I will share if it "works" to help others that encounter this issue which was the intent of starting the thread 😉

JosBaz

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Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 03:02:53 PM »
Not really a solution for what you are asking, but would it not be easier to put WC on a separate, 2nd-hand 'headless' Mac Mini?

This allows for 24x7 operation without the risk of loosing data, ensures low power consumption, and allows you to use the serial connection. The older Mac Mini's have plenty of power for WC and other applications (e.g. I'm using my mid-2011 model both for WC and as a Media Server). No need for a (permanently connected) monitor: you can connect to it from your other Apple computer.

I've moved to this solution years ago after family members were messing with the family iMac more often than I liked.  ;)

It was of course another (relatively small) investment but in my opinion worth it - already for my peace of mind alone.

Jos

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Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2020, 05:15:05 PM »
Not really a solution for what you are asking, but would it not be easier to put WC on a separate, 2nd-hand 'headless' Mac Mini?

This allows for 24x7 operation without the risk of loosing data, ensures low power consumption, and allows you to use the serial connection. The older Mac Mini's have plenty of power for WC and other applications (e.g. I'm using my mid-2011 model both for WC and as a Media Server). No need for a (permanently connected) monitor: you can connect to it from your other Apple computer.

I've moved to this solution years ago after family members were messing with the family iMac more often than I liked.  ;)

It was of course another (relatively small) investment but in my opinion worth it - already for my peace of mind alone.

Jos

 ThU32:-)
Reinhard


Xipper

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Re: Cost benefit? (Re: Solutions for Davis and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs)
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2020, 04:39:12 AM »
Quote from: ColdnFrosty
Have you tried this solution:

https://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=3196.msg30962#msg30962

I had to go through that hassle to get it working under Big Sur on my Mac Pro, however Apple doesn't allow kernel extensions to run in Rossetta2 emulation so it won't work unless SiLabs releases an Apple Silicon native driver.  The existing Intel (x86/AMD64) driver is not binary/execution compatible with the M1 (ARM) processor is the issue.

Quote from: JosBaz
Not really a solution for what you are asking, but would it not be easier to put WC on a separate, 2nd-hand 'headless' Mac Mini?

This allows for 24x7 operation without the risk of loosing data, ensures low power consumption, and allows you to use the serial connection. The older Mac Mini's have plenty of power for WC and other applications (e.g. I'm using my mid-2011 model both for WC and as a Media Server). No need for a (permanently connected) monitor: you can connect to it from your other Apple computer.

I've moved to this solution years ago after family members were messing with the family iMac more often than I liked.  ;)

It was of course another (relatively small) investment but in my opinion worth it - already for my peace of mind alone.

Jos

I am looking to simplify my life, not add complexity.  I want to take this one time hassle and be done, buying and maintaining another headless Mac isn't something I am looking to sign up for.  I have no "media" to serve, I am not even clear where people with media servers acquire enough legal content to needs a 24x7 server  ;). Even so, why would I need another system when this one M1 mini is more than capable of serving all of these purposes with zero additional maintenance hassle and without more than doubling power consumption.   Before I went down this path I would ditch Weathercat and go with a Linux based solution as I already have to maintain a Linux system for work activities, adding another Mac just for this purpose is out of the cards.

I appreciate the alternatives, but losing Weathercat is the actually the easiest path...however I will have the 3rd party data logger in Saturday and will report how it goes.

JosBaz

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Re: Cost benefit? (Re: Solutions for Davis and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs)
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2020, 06:56:05 PM »

I have no "media" to serve, I am not even clear where people with media servers acquire enough legal content to needs a 24x7 server  ;). Even so, why would I need another system when this one M1 mini is more than capable of serving all of these purposes with zero additional maintenance hassle and without more than doubling power consumption.   Before I went down this path I would ditch Weathercat and go with a Linux based solution as I already have to maintain a Linux system for work activities, adding another Mac just for this purpose is out of the cards.

I appreciate the alternatives, but losing Weathercat is the actually the easiest path...however I will have the 3rd party data logger in Saturday and will report how it goes.

I plead innocent [rolleyes2] For me it's a one-stop solution that (after digitizing once) made all my 8mm, VHS, DVI, and DVD equipment that I collected over the years obsolete. Believe it or not: I even have black & white footage on it from my grandfather, showing Germans retreating from Holland in 1944.  :)
Anyway, I find it quite convenient to be able to watch all of it now from anywhere (smart TV, iPad, or smartphone).

Keep us informed on your progress. I certainly respect and appreciate the efforts from early adopters, which in the end benefit many.

Xipper

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Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2020, 01:43:16 AM »
So my update is that I bought the 3rd party WiFiLogger 2 from Scaled Instruments.  It arrived today, I used my work laptop (Intel Mac) to extract the last of the historical data from the USB logger and installed the WiFiLogger 2. Getting the historical data from the USB logger was a lot of hassle, but I thought it was worth it to avoid any gaps in my local data and we did just have a good bit of precipitation.

The setup of the WiFi Logger was simple, connected it to my isolated IoT network and was able to point Weathercat directly at the IP as a Davis WeatherLink IP...and Weathercat doesn't seem to be none the wiser.  I am actually really impressed with the simplicity, far better than anything I have seen offered from Davis via official options.  The fact that the entire thing fits with the expansion module bay of my station is really impressive, it has an SD card slot (though no real documentation on the purpose).

Having the entire weather setup be truly wireless is a huge improvement for me, I can sell one of my Davis consoles and now get it off the desk in my office. The console could now just join the rest of the IT support gear in another room, as I can just load the local web page of the WiFi logger to see any real time data.

I actually moved all of my online weather uploading directly to the WiFi Logger so that Weathercat is less critical, it is now just for my own historical information locally. 

bob2k2

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Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2021, 03:38:52 PM »
FWIW I just transferred files from my Intel iMac to a 24" M1 last night. First I can verify that WeatherCat (3.12) VCP serial w. Vantage Pro 2 works using  6.0.2 VCP SILABS driver (https://www.silabs.com/developers/usb-to-uart-bridge-vcp-drivers) and Monterey.   But since the new M1 iMac has only USB-C ports vice USB 3.0 I wasn't sure if there would be an issue. Also, I was concerned that the iMac 24" M1 might only have two USB-C ports like my M1 Mac air so prior to delivery I purchased a USB-C to 3 port USB 3.0/HDMI/Ethernet hub. When delivered it turns out there are four USB-C port (and nothing elseon the back).   At first I connected my VantagePro 2 cable to the USB C hub and it didn't work. Then, I connected it via a single USB-C to USB 3.0 conversion cable to USB C port on the back of the iMac and it worked like a charm. So far so good. After I did my transfer of data via carbon copy cloner (much faster than the mac Migration) I made sure to reinstall the VCP driver just to be sure and restarted the machine before connecting to Vantage Pro 2 cable.

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Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2021, 04:39:12 PM »
Thanks so much for the detailed report! ThU5:-) Congrats on running the latest and greatest hard & software! I've not even updated all our Macs to Big Sur! [lol]
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bwc

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Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro and Apple Silicon (M1) Macs
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2022, 03:10:59 AM »
I actually moved all of my online weather uploading directly to the WiFi Logger so that Weathercat is less critical, it is now just for my own historical information locally.

Sorry for the later reply. I just discovered the WiFiLogger product the other day and am interested in learning more about it. How are you getting the data into WeatherCat, still?
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Thread for WiFiLogger (Re: Solutions for Davis VantagePro)
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2022, 11:25:52 PM »
Dear bwc and WeatherCat troubleshooters,

Thanks for taking the time to do your own research!  It makes lives of those of us trying to support WeatherCat that much easier!

. . . .
Sorry for the later reply. I just discovered the WiFiLogger product the other day and am interested in learning more about it. How are you getting the data into WeatherCat, still?

Actually, there is a thread that confirms it works with WeatherCat:

https://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=2830.msg27460#msg27460

You can get more information on this logger from the manufacturer on their website:

https://wifilogger.net/index.html

One of the things you'll find on that website is that the exclusive distributor for this product in North America is Scaled Instruments.  Here is a link to the product page:

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/shop/shop-by-category/data-loggers/wifilogger2/

Yes, this should solve any problems associated with the USB driver software which is a problem that has also concerned me for some time.  However, out of due caution I will point out that we have a second WeatherCat user having connection problems in this case with an IP based data logger:

https://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=3382.msg32393#msg32393

I take some flak for being so cautious about upgrading to the latest versions of operating systems, but rarely does the pain of being behind compare to the pain when the upgrade breaks something you really care about.

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