Coming to a computer in front of YOU: macOS Sierra

[xairbusdriver]

1 TB
the app sizes are about 1 GB

I'm assuming you are talking about some individual apps being 1GB. I have 55.6 GBs of just apps, but that includes all the Apple apps, as well. I've barely using one third of my drives space, so I'm far from concerned about running out of room. Certainly not even thinking about removing stuff. Of course, I do NOT have any MS apps.

OTOH, I don't have WC running on this machine. WC runs on a Mac mini with 'only' a 500GB drive, with less than 55GB in use! 13.5 are 'apps'. Even with all of todays WC movies plus another 7 days worth, that only adds up to 2.5GB!

Unless your drive is approaching 15% free space, I just don't understand your concerns.

[TechnoMonkey]

Dear Herb, Weatheraardvark, and WeatherCat oldtimers who remember when using a Mac was . . . . . S-s-s-simple . . . . 

I do. OS9.  A wonderfully user-centric system that did everything I needed to do.  OSX has basically become windows.  Computer-centric and buggy.

I dropped el Capitan and went back to Lion.  I would much rather go back to Snow Leopard, but it does not recognize the thunderbolt port.

I doubt that I will even try Sierra for a couple of years.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Weatheraardvark]

I do have a plan, sort of to get rid of some apps.   My wife has   a PC with Vista.  It works fine, 8 gig ram and all that, but the OS  doesn't match well with the OS on the server at her work. So after we get back from our adventure, she is going to opt for a Win 10 self contained. 

I get her old Vista.  I am going to load in Blue iris and get that going,  delete  the ip camera program I am using off the mac. That should free up space.  I assume that when I trash an app, MACOS  takes all the files associated with it as well and trashes those?

That should free up some of the odd stuff.  I might  move the weather station software as well.  I don't know on that.  I also need to see if Numbers will take my MS Excel files and work with them.  Then to find a replacement for  One Note and try to run the original apps that came with the machine as close as I can.  That might reduce the other as well.

I turned off Time Capsule and that didn't make much difference when I rebooted the computer.

Somehow a PC for me is a heck of a lot easier, but then again.. I love this mac

I am holding out to see what the new Apple Watch has.  if it has a better battery, I am going to put the Fitbit Blaze on the shelf and go for it. If not..  I am not to that thinking stage yet.

[elagache]

Dear X-Air, Blick, Weatheraardvark, Herb, Steve, and WeatherCat admirers of Steve Jobs,

Okay, I saw the video last night with my Mom and we both were very deeply disappointed.  For starters, Apple continues to steal features found in 3rd party utilities and calling them their own.  That will only further poison the relationship between Apple and its developers.  If Apple likes something developed by another developer, the developer should get some compensation for being put out of business (which very frequently happens.) 

Worse still, when Apple steals these ideas, usually they aren't as well implemented as the original.  Apple's updates to the Finder are a very pale imitation of Path Finder.  You already can share your clipboard between your Mac and iOS devices.  There are better third party tools for you to search for old files and make better use of your disk space.

I didn't see a single feature that I would want that isn't already implemented better by existing 3rd party utilities and I saw plenty I really didn't like.  The windows to tabs feature is likely not to work properly on applications that weren't designed with such functionality in mind.  Apple should not have simply made the clipboard shared across all devices.  There may be cases when that could really mess up your workflow, especially if your run a multiple clipboard managers like CopyPaste Pro.  Instead Apple should have entended the user-interface to provide access to an independent cloud clipboard.  That way - when - you want to save something in the cloud, you have the freedom to do so - not every time you cut or copy anything.  Otherwise you might find yourself with an extremely embarrassing moment when you paste something in public that was perfectly okay in private context when you cut or copied it.

In general I'm seeing Apple gutting two central paradigms of the Mac user-interface that were essential to making great.  These principles go all the way back to the Xerox Alto.  Everything could be operated by a mouse and everything could be discovered by exploring.  Back in 1989 or so, I was supposed to make demonstration of my Mac II and forgot to bring my keyboard.  I was able to complete my demonstration with only the mouse.  Try to do that today with your Mac.  In the old days you could you learn most of what you needed to know by launching a Mac application and systematically going through all the pulldown menus.  Just that process was usually good enough get a reasonably good idea of the programs functionality.  Is there any sort of equivalent heuristic you could use today to figure out an iOS app?

Apple products have gotten much harder to use and I fear that Apple engineers are proud of it in the same geeky way that Microsoft engineers were proud of Windows.  Us old timers are the only ones who remember was Apple was like and I fear nobody is listening as . . . . the egalitarian elegance of Apple slowly fades away . . .   

Edouard

P.S.  So what sort of biometrics is Apple proposing to prevent someone from simply stealing your Apple Watch and using it to unlock your computer?  Even it the watch can recognize you, can it recognize whether or not the reason you brought your watch next to your Mac is because a bad guy is holding a knife to your throat?

[xairbusdriver]

From last to first... as we drift further off topic...

I turned off Time Capsule and that didn't make much difference when I rebooted the computer.

If Time Machine is being used correctly and normally, you won't notice it doing it's thing. It will be running every 60 minutes updating it's backups with anything still on the drive that has changed in that 60 minutes. Overall, that is usually a very small amount of data, even though they can be strategically important.

If you force it to run once a day, it will have all the changes you made in how many hours you've had the computer on, obviously, that may involve dozens more files and could then take dozens omore minutes and tens of thousands more CPU cycles. But, to each his own.

I also need to see if Numbers will take my MS Excel files and work with them.

It may, but the UI will be completely different, much more intuitive, in my opinion, but I never had to use Excel, so my opinion is irrelevant. I did use FileMaker very often for things I saw Excel used. Never could understand why rows and columns appealed to so many when FM could display things so much easier. Again, my opinion is irrelevant.

However, Numbers is not equivalent to Excel. If your calculations and functions are very complicated, you will probably be disappointed. However, there are still free apps that can almost exactly the operations and even the UI of Word/Excel/Powerpoint/etc. In alphabetical order: LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and OpenOffice.

I assume that when I trash an app, MACOS  takes all the files associated with it as well and trashes those?

Usually. Especially apps built in the 'bundled' fashion or purchased from the App Store. But that does not apply to Adobe and Microsoft who strictly follow the 'not-invented-here' philosophy.

Some apps also have UN-installers and you will be well advised to use them. I do not recommend any of the several "app removal' type apps, you simply cannot be sure their developers have built them well enough to know which files may be used by other apps or even the OS. Others swear by them rather than at them. I just don't see the point of trusting some dev to know exactly how thousand of other devs install their apps and support files.

[xairbusdriver]

As I've said many times, "Some people will be upset even when they are hung with a new rope"! Good grief! You used to be able to fix or at least tune up your car with a timing light and a screw driver, sometimes even with just the screw driver! Try that now! I still run through the menus of any new app I get, it's the simplest step to begin using it! Yet it never ceases to amaze me when people ask the most obvious questions that can be answered by simply telling them which menu to look in!

I simply do not understand all the bad mouthing about an OS that is not even available and especially about functions that people have never even seen, much less used before. How many of these people said they'd never use, much less need a "computer" 30 years ago? Take a break, relax, maybe try some of that stupid, expensive flavored water! Use what ever OS/hardware you want, but stop telling us what we won't or cant do with what we choose when it's not even a choice yet! Frankly, some of the posts in this thread remind me of some of the pilots where I used to work with. Even though they had never had any business training, much less ever owned/run a business of any kind, they always had a 'better way' to run the company. At least the smart ones stayed in the cockpit and didn't demonstrate their stupidity by actually trying to run anything! As Alfred E. Newman once said, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."

[Weatheraardvark]

As I've said many times, "Some people will be upset even when they are hung with a new rope"! Good grief! You used to be able to fix or at least tune up your car with a timing light and a screw driver, sometimes even with just the screw driver! Try that now! I still run through the menus of any new app I get, it's the simplest step to begin using it! Yet it never ceases to amaze me when people ask the most obvious questions that can be answered by simply telling them which menu to look in!

I simply do not understand all the bad mouthing about an OS that is not even available and especially about functions that people have never even seen, much less used before. How many of these people said they'd never use, much less need a "computer" 30 years ago? Take a break, relax, maybe try some of that stupid, expensive flavored water! Use what ever OS/hardware you want, but stop telling us what we won't or cant do with what we choose when it's not even a choice yet! Frankly, some of the posts in this thread remind me of some of the pilots where I used to work with. Even though they had never had any business training, much less ever owned/run a business of any kind, they always had a 'better way' to run the company. At least the smart ones stayed in the cockpit and didn't demonstrate their stupidity by actually trying to run anything! As Alfred E. Newman once said, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."

  To quote Larry, Moe and Curly, Larry said "I resemble that remark."   However,  I do know this is your playground , your board, thread, and all  but at least have some compassion on asking a question.   
   I don't fly, I do teach.  Veteran of 30 years before the teeming masses of little minds wanting to remain little, but we don't do that.  I wrote at least a thousand IEPs and at no time did any of them ever refer to someone's stupidity.

I would wish you would not be so caustic.

[Weatheraardvark]

From last to first... as we drift further off topic...

I turned off Time Capsule and that didn't make much difference when I rebooted the computer.

If Time Machine is being used correctly and normally, you won't notice it doing it's thing. It will be running every 60 minutes updating it's backups with anything still on the drive that has changed in that 60 minutes. Overall, that is usually a very small amount of data, even though they can be strategically important.

If you force it to run once a day, it will have all the changes you made in how many hours you've had the computer on, obviously, that may involve dozens more files and could then take dozens omore minutes and tens of thousands more CPU cycles. But, to each his own.

I also need to see if Numbers will take my MS Excel files and work with them.

It may, but the UI will be completely different, much more intuitive, in my opinion, but I never had to use Excel, so my opinion is irrelevant. I did use FileMaker very often for things I saw Excel used. Never could understand why rows and columns appealed to so many when FM could display things so much easier. Again, my opinion is irrelevant.

However, Numbers is not equivalent to Excel. If your calculations and functions are very complicated, you will probably be disappointed. However, there are still free apps that can almost exactly the operations and even the UI of Word/Excel/Powerpoint/etc. In alphabetical order: LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and OpenOffice.

I assume that when I trash an app, MACOS  takes all the files associated with it as well and trashes those?

Usually. Especially apps built in the 'bundled' fashion or purchased from the App Store. But that does not apply to Adobe and Microsoft who strictly follow the 'not-invented-here' philosophy.

Some apps also have UN-installers and you will be well advised to use them. I do not recommend any of the several "app removal' type apps, you simply cannot be sure their developers have built them well enough to know which files may be used by other apps or even the OS. Others swear by them rather than at them. I just don't see the point of trusting some dev to know exactly how thousand of other devs install their apps and support files.

Coming from a PC background ( I started out with at TRS80 that is how long in the game),  the Microsoft office apps were very crucial to my job.  i had to learn them and feel comfortable. FFP  I used as well and liked it.   I have been only using the iMac since April 8. The school where I taught got a 3 million dollar grant and every teacher had their own MacPro Book.  I was comfortable with that as being a geek  I explored it fully.  the district loaded the MS office software.

I did do some fiddling with Numbers and it will open my weather data .   I have data back to 1994 , in different spread sheets (http://desmoinesweather.org/weatherdata/index.html ),    I am not sure who gets off looking at them,, but I go for long term trends.

I didn't feel comfortable with the program aka app, so I deleted it.  I am also going to see how I like  pages and follow similar suit.

With regard to the watch,  I am not interested in using it to bypass the password or whatever the os3 has in store.  I have been tossing this back and forth for a while now. I have the computer, phone, ipod, ipad, why not the watch and then I can paste the "steal me please" decals on all my windows.

IF  I have to upgrade to Sierra I will do so. IF, unlike Microsoft, Apple doesn't have an end of life OS, then I will stay here.  Yes, there are a few things in the new one  that are of interest to me, but I would rather wait a couple of months to see what happens.

Time Machine?   just curious,  does it save anything to the harddrive?   I have the Airport Time Capsule.   My wife uses her mac  for grad school and everything is on that machine (you may chuckle as my students did when I called it a machine),  so having the wifi set to the Airport she has her time machine backing up .  The down side is it only works when she is at home.  but then again .. I suppose time machine could go for the icloud .

Now...  the  real question, is an updte of the Weathercat coming out?    I use Securityspy and their latest update for me is crash city.   and with that.  it is sure hot here today.

[Blicj11]

Time Machine?   just curious,  does it save anything to the harddrive?   I have the Airport Time Capsule.   My wife uses her mac  for grad school and everything is on that machine (you may chuckle as my students did when I called it a machine),  so having the wifi set to the Airport she has her time machine backing up .  The down side is it only works when she is at home.  but then again .. I suppose time machine could go for the icloud .

Time Machine is software. It saves to wherever you tell it to save. If you have a Time Capsule, then Time Machine will save to the drive on the Time Capsule. If you are using both Time Machine and a Time Capsule, you are not saving any hard drive space on your computer's local hard drive by turning Time Machine off.

[xairbusdriver]

To quote Larry, Moe and Curly, Larry said "I resemble that remark."   However,  I do know this is your playground , your board, thread, and all  but at least have some compassion on asking a question.   
   I don't fly, I do teach.  Veteran of 30 years before the teeming masses of little minds wanting to remain little, but we don't do that.  I wrote at least a thousand IEPs and at no time did any of them ever refer to someone's stupidity.

I would wish you would not be so caustic.

I started to write you via the Private Messaging system on this forum. But, perhaps it's better this way:

First, my post did not specify any individual on purpose. But I will definitely say it was not, in any way, directed at you. The person(s) it was directed are "generic", even if certain members exactly fit my description. Also, remember that post may not always follow the post they may be replying to. That's exactly what happened here.

However, I deeply apologize to anyone who was offended by my remarks. I had hoped they would be seen as sarcastic rather than caustic, however, that line is often too thin. My point was that the second post in this entire thread contains a link to an article that exactly addressed the attitude to which I was referring.

While I did say some people were "stupid", they were certainly not anyone named nor even implied to be members of these forums. Lastly, remember to check for the use of 'smileies'/'emoticons'/small images found on the Full Editor page, that can often relay more about the posters attitude than mere words. Rather goes with the 'one picture is worth a thousand words' philosophy.

And, once again, because of my slow 'typing skills*', I see that another reply has been posted before I can finish this one.

* "Skills" be very loosely defined by the use of two fingers on different hands.

[xairbusdriver]

Time Machine?   just curious,  does it save anything to the harddrive?

Generally, Time Machine is designed to run (save stuff) on an external drive or at least a drive in addition to your normal, single internal drive. Time Capsule has additional hardware (WiFi) that allows it to be used without a cable. However, you may be able to use your wife's Capsule by using a cable to connect to it so it is available without her being there.

As to what it will back up, by default, it will back up everything. But most of use use its preferences/controls to prevent it from backing up certain things.

• Many of us have apps that came on CD's, those things can last for decades, no point in putting them on a back up drive.
• Now a days, the App Store is the source of many apps. That means they can easily be restored, assuming you have Internet access.
• As I mentioned earlier, WC creates fairly large movie files. Since mine is running 24/7, I have 24 movies a day! And I have the automatic erasing function running on a seven day schedule. I don't see a need to waste backup space/time by saving all those movies. YMMV.
• The OS is huge but it is quite easily restored via the hidden Recovery Disk, so why bother backing it up.
• You may have a dedicated folder/directory to serve as a "scratch" disk or area. You may want to exclude that from the TM backups.

The point is, you decide what you want it to exclude, the default is to backup everything.

Limiting the TM backup also cuts down on the time each backup takes. Apple has designed a very tolerant and stable app that is very 'kind' to other operations, so it easily makes use of microseconds when nothing else is happening. That's the main reason we seldom ever notice it working... even if you type with all ten fingers! 

Now, just to throw another idea into the fray... I highly recommend you not rely solely on TM for all your backup needs. Many of us, and many experts, suggest using at least two different backup methods. One is TM, since it is free and included on every recent model of Mac. The other is an app that can create a bootable clone of your entire disk, at least once a day. The two most well know apps of this type are CarbonCopy Cloner and SuperDuper. Neither is free. And both should also be used on a drive separate from the TM drive, for safeties sake.

If you have additional Mac-related questions, I suggest you start a thread or just add to threads in the "General Computing/Macintosh" forum. 

[Bull Winkus]

How to Clean Your Mac OS X El Capitan Hard Disk Drive
and a few hints and tips (not comprehensive)

In the following order of importance:

Empty trash can
Remove all unwanted files from the Downloads folder
Empty trash can
In iTunes, View, Show Duplicate Items menu option, scan for duplicates and delete (note that same title and artist may not be a duplicate)
Empty trash can
Optionally delete cache files (Safari, Google Earth, Etc?)
Empty trash can
Uninstall or delete useless applications
Empty trash can

If your 1TB drive is over half full, you've probably got a lot of stuff on there you can live without.

Time Machine may write scratch files to your boot disk. If the backup destination isn't available then Time Machine creates a local snapshot of any files that have changed since the last backup. This is temporary and when the backup destination is available, the snapshot will be moved to the backup destination drive.

Spotlight indexes your hard drives. The greater the number of files, including small files, the larger the index.

How Time Machine Works its Magic

 

[xairbusdriver]

Another item to add to my list, Bull; exclude your other drives unless you want TM to back them up.

Sadly, Mr. James Pond is no longer alive, but his info is still valid. And I thought I had seen some one planning on keeping that site up-to-date. Little has changed in the "Magic", however.

[Weatheraardvark]

http://www.macworld.com/article/3087556/os-x/8-hidden-features-of-macos-sierra.html?token=%23tk.MCW_nlt_mw_daily_html_2016-06-23&idg_eid=d53151b84b8a2a36829bdc1f51e925ff&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Macworld%20Daily%202016-06-23&utm_term=mw_daily_html

[elagache]

Dear X-Air, Weatheraardvark, Herb, and WeatherCat IT historians,

Perhaps it is a lost cause, but I'll try to make one last attempt to appeal toward something genuinely lofty and beneficial in user-interface design.

Do any of you guys remember the "desktop paradigm"?  You are staring at it as you read this posting.  It is the Mac OS foundation that made the Mac different and was so special that Microsoft had to steal in Windows.  But you really appreciate the big idea behind the desktop user-interface?

Before the Alto, and the refinements in the Apple Lisa, computers were driven by commands typed into a console.  Everything had to be learned by rote memorization.  At best the command names had some relationship to what they were doing, but how many of you would realize that mv stands for move a file in UNIX?

The guys at Xerox PARC undertook a very difficult task.  They decided to try to come up with a way that someone who had no understanding how a computer operated to nonetheless be able to operate a computer.  Their solution was to create a desktop "virtual reality."  The functionality of say moving a file would be emulated by a process that an office worker physically carry out on a desk.  To move a file, you physically drag the file just as you would move a document from one place to another on a desk.

The desktop user-interface was hardly a perfect recreation of a desk, but it was much easier to pick up than UNIX or MS-DOS.  The project of abstracting the counter-intuitive functionality of a computer into an everyday environment people were familiar with utterly changed computing and made it accessible to just about anyone.  Yes, the early Mac could be used by grandmothers.  Today's Macs aren't nearly as friendly to elderly.

As far as know, there isn't any sort of everyday environment paradigm for iOS like there was for Mac OS.  Sadly it is now clear to me that even Steve Jobs didn't fully appreciate what made the Mac so special.  iOS is full of clever tricks, but you simply need to learn them.  There isn't any sort of human experiences that you can turn to in order to infer how the iPhone or iPad should work.  It is a graphical user-interface, but it is just as arbitrary and contrived as UNIX and MS-DOS. 

The silicon valley is supposedly the place of "big ideas."  However, the status of smart phone operating systems makes a sad reality clear - the silicon valley has run out of big ideas.  If Apple and Google couldn't exceed the brilliance of Xerox PARC researchers by creating a smartphone GUI every bit as elegant as the desktop computer interface - clearly those engineers aren't as good as they have lead us to believe.

Edouard