Author Topic: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???  (Read 5256 times)

elagache

  • Global Moderator
  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 6649
    • DW3835
    • KCAORIND10
    • Canebas Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro-2, Mac mini (2018), macOS 10.14.3, WeatherCat 3
Dear WeatherCat Mac caregivers,

Yesterday afternoon my Mac was running very slow.  I looked over at the amount of free memory and it was down to 20 MBs . . .

Since I had rebooted that same morning, something was clearly out of whack.  I quick check of Activity Monitor revealed:



Now to give OS X credit, that is a rather amazing ability to cope with a process using 36 GB of RAM when the computer only has 16 GB of RAM.  As you can see, there was a "few other applications" also running at the same time.

Observing the crisis, I checked to see what in the blankety-blank . . . Time Machine was up to (backupd is the daemon for Time Machine.)  It reported that it was still preparing to backup and that the last backup had occurred at around 8:30 am (it was now around 4:30 pm.)

I tried to cancel the backup which had basically - no effect.  After waiting a bit in the hopes that canceling would put Time Machine into a more stable state, I lost my patience and rebooted.

Everything has been working fine after that.  Time Machine very quickly completed another backup without incident.

So what happened to my Mac? . . . . . . I certainly dunno' . . . .

Nonetheless, considering that Apple should make Time Machine as bullet-proof as possible, the whole episode isn't exactly giving me warm fuzzies . . . .  :o

Oh well, . . . . . Edouard

Bull Winkus

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
  • 2013 iMac 2 x 27", OS Ver. 10.15.7
    • EW0095
    • KARHORSE2
    • WU for Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas
  • Station Details: Davis Wireless Vantage Pro 2, iMac 2 x 27"
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2016, 11:49:58 PM »
I had a similar situation on my WC machine. Never had it on the other. I think it has a lot to do with the number of files accumulating on the HD. I think that for each backup, or at least some, it has to look at the entire VTOC to find changed files, and there may be fragmentation housekeeping involved as well. So, what with all the files generated by WC, after a year or so I found that going and archiving satellite image files to a separate drive was my way to speed up the backups.

I also picked up a freeware program called Time Machine Editor, which allowed you more control of the backup interval. Now Time Machine backs up once a day in the wee hours of the morning.

 [cheers1]
Herb

Blicj11

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
    • EW3808
    • KUTHEBER6
    • Timber Lakes Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus | WeatherLinkIP Data Logger | iMac (2019), 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9, 40 GB RAM, macOS Sonoma 14.7.7 | WeatherCat 3.3 | Supportive Wife
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 07:37:28 AM »
I also picked up a freeware program called Time Machine Editor, which allowed you more control of the backup interval. Now Time Machine backs up once a day in the wee hours of the morning.

I use this app to do the same thing. Time Machine now backs up once a day at 4:00 am.
Blick


Randall75

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • CWOP-CW6734 WeatherUnderground-KOHNEWAR6
    • CW6734
    • KOHNEWAR6
    • Randy's Weather On The Hill
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus.iMac i5 OS High Sierra 10.13.6 8GB Ram, WeatherCat 3,Logitech 9000 Pro Web Cam
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 12:51:28 PM »
Hi Bull Winkus,Blick, and Edouard
 I also use time machine editor twice a day [tup]


cheers
 [cheers1]

xairbusdriver

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 3131
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2016, 02:57:39 PM »
Please don't take any of the following as personal. It is purely my opinion and not supported by any non or for profit entity, nor did any political group provide any funding.

Quote
the whole episode isn't exactly giving me warm fuzzies
Sounds a bit paranoid to me, although I've found that even paranoid people have enemies! :o I think I've heard of just about every single app and even a lot of functions in every OS fail or crash at some time. These are not military grade, mission-critical machines and apps we're using. Frankly, I'm surprised (and extremely thankful) that TM so rarely causes a problem. I think it's much more likely that the drive it uses will fail more often that the app[citation needed].

I know most of us make backups almost in to a religion. On the other hand, even in the case you mentioned, you fixed it with only a bit of work. Instead of lowering your opinion of TM, I'd suggest it is an encouraging sign that Apple has developed a function that recovers very gracefully. ;)

If you're only using TM once a day, why? CCC is much better for creating a "clone" and can also do some incremental backups. If you aren't often creating multiple versions of things, TM is over kill, in my opinion. It was designed with two main purposes in mind: 1. Make it stupid safe for people who don't know computers can "run backwards" and thus never do "backups". [lol] 2. Maintain a version history as far back as the original program/document/file was created. [tup]

I have (in 25+ years) restored exactly one computer with a cloned backup. I restore something from TM at least once a month! As I lose more grey cells, I suspect I may use it more often. And what I need will not be on a CCC backup from last year... because there won't be one.

Ironically, I have plans today to confirm that I have eliminated all the video files from TM and CCC backups of my dedicated WC mini. Those are huge files and are not very useful except for watching it rain back in 2006 on July 18 between 3 and 4 pm. Especially since I didn't even have WC or a camera back then... DOH!

"Just because you can do something, that doesn't mean you should." That applies equally well to messing with daemons/agents/(and even worse) kernel extensions and backing up useless data. [tup] YMMV, obviously. ;)
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system

Blicj11

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
    • EW3808
    • KUTHEBER6
    • Timber Lakes Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus | WeatherLinkIP Data Logger | iMac (2019), 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9, 40 GB RAM, macOS Sonoma 14.7.7 | WeatherCat 3.3 | Supportive Wife
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2016, 03:15:43 PM »
I use it because it's free and does exactly what I want it to.
Blick


Bull Winkus

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
  • 2013 iMac 2 x 27", OS Ver. 10.15.7
    • EW0095
    • KARHORSE2
    • WU for Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas
  • Station Details: Davis Wireless Vantage Pro 2, iMac 2 x 27"
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2016, 06:02:10 PM »
I think Edouard was looking for advice on how to give his Time Machine a wack since, as stated, it was clearly out.

Who knows what darkened trap doors lie within the pathways of unattended committee designed code, intended for one size fits all deployment? ? The Shadow do.

It seems apparent from the description, which is a sketchy way of getting information for troubleshooting for sure, that the Time Machine in question had entered the well known Twilight Zone of One Infinite Loop. Being a Time Machine, does that mean that it was in the process of consuming Time itself? It would certainly seem so, given the OP's description of lost time. ? An interesting and perhaps philosophical question itself, since Edouard disrupted its fiendish plan and saved the world!

All hail Edouard! A most  [interesting] Frenchman, and this years defender of time itself! May his many aspirations be realized as clocks round the world continue their seemingly infinite measure. ? Long Live Edouard!

 [woohoo]
Herb

Blicj11

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
    • EW3808
    • KUTHEBER6
    • Timber Lakes Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus | WeatherLinkIP Data Logger | iMac (2019), 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9, 40 GB RAM, macOS Sonoma 14.7.7 | WeatherCat 3.3 | Supportive Wife
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2016, 06:25:00 PM »
Edouard the Great, as he is known to thousands of Federico's fans in Italy ==> http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1039.msg11583#msg11583
Blick


The Grand Poohbah

  • Gale
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
  • Developer of WeatherCat for iOS, tvOS, and watchOS
    • EW6355 KCANEVAD43
    • Hopeful Hill Ranch
  • Station Details: Vantage Pro 2, aspirated, solar radiation, uv, soil temp and moisture
Time Machine
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2016, 07:39:09 PM »
I use Time Machine with its default settings and it's worked perfectly for years. I occasionally find that I have wandered into a swamp of spaghetti code and wish I could put things back to where they were. Time Machine has always rescued me. I wouldn't be without it.

elagache

  • Global Moderator
  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 6649
    • DW3835
    • KCAORIND10
    • Canebas Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro-2, Mac mini (2018), macOS 10.14.3, WeatherCat 3
Dear Herb, Blick, Randall, X-Air, Grand, and WeatherCat alienated fans of Apple Computer,

I use Time Machine with its default settings and it's worked perfectly for years. I occasionally find that I have wandered into a swamp of spaghetti code and wish I could put things back to where they were. Time Machine has always rescued me. I wouldn't be without it.

This is my point of view.  Time Machine should work because it is first an elegant design and second it is the sort of thing that should work completely on its own protected by UNIX preemptive multitasking so that it can accomplish its duties no matter what else your computer is doing.  Since I've been using UNIX systems since the 1980s, I know what sort of rugged durability can be expected of UNIX.  OS X is a FreeBSD derivative of UNIX, the same flavor that was chosen for the Mars Spirit and Opportunity rovers.  So when OS X doesn't work, it is because someone screwed up with a system that should be rock solid.

I also picked up a freeware program called Time Machine Editor, which allowed you more control of the backup interval. Now Time Machine backs up once a day in the wee hours of the morning.

Unfortunately that does defeat the second really handy feature of Time Machine: saving yourself from files that you changed and really shouldn't have (as Grand mentions.)  Backing up once an hour isn't nearly the burden that it appears to be.  All that is backed up is what changed.  Even when you are working hard, it won't end up being that many files.

I think Time Machine's original design was elegant and very desirable.  I would prefer to keep using it precisely because it was an example of Apple at its best: creating simple software that is innovative and really useful.  I used other backup software before Time Machine, but once I got use to Time Machine, I would very much like never to do back!

Please don't take any of the following as personal. It is purely my opinion and not supported by any non or for profit entity, nor did any political group provide any funding.

Quote
the whole episode isn't exactly giving me warm fuzzies
Sounds a bit paranoid to me, although I've found that even paranoid people have enemies! :o I think I've heard of just about every single app and even a lot of functions in every OS fail or crash at some time. These are not military grade, mission-critical machines and apps we're using. Frankly, I'm surprised (and extremely thankful) that TM so rarely causes a problem. I think it's much more likely that the drive it uses will fail more often that the app[citation needed].

Unfortunately, X-Air your background isn't in IT so perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge.  I've spend a lot of time around UNIX systems, so I know what they are capable of.  The only reason Apple computer is still in business is that Steve Jobs rescued the Mac by moving from Mac OS to UNIX-based OS X.  OS X is now over 15 years old, so Apple engineers should be as good with UNIX as anybody on planet earth.  That's why I'm angry about it.  I got my first Mac in 1988 and I lived with all the quirks of OS 6 on.  Rebooting more than once a day was a sad but common occurrence.  What was cute in 1988 was utterly intolerable by 1998.  When OS X came along, I could be proud about being a Mac user like I had never been before.

It seems painfully clear to me that Apple has lost its priorities.  The evidence is most glaring when a product that should be bullet-proof because robustness is possible and extremely desirable, nonetheless fails to up hold up to that bullet-proof standard.  Time Machine should - never - have a memory leak - period.  Software engineers know how to avoid such things in such a comparatively simple context and there is no excuse for the alternative.

Seeing what I observed is an extremely bad sign.  Apple has put innovation ahead of quality.  Microsoft nearly self-destructed with this sort of false virtues.  There was a time when Apple quality truly meant something we all could count on and be proud of.  It is something that made the company truly unique in the silicon valley.  Apple is rapidly slipping into the morass of frenetic geek mediocrity.  Without a radical change in management priorities, it is a slippery slope from which the company is unlikely to survive.

Edouard


Randall75

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • CWOP-CW6734 WeatherUnderground-KOHNEWAR6
    • CW6734
    • KOHNEWAR6
    • Randy's Weather On The Hill
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus.iMac i5 OS High Sierra 10.13.6 8GB Ram, WeatherCat 3,Logitech 9000 Pro Web Cam
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2016, 12:32:53 AM »
Hi EDOUARD
 You are right I think Apple is now more about the IOS than it's computers you now can do almost any thing on an Iphone that you can do on your computer I was having trouble with Time machine not deleting any of the backups and it would fill my 3 gig back hard drive then it wouldn'[t work right thats when i started using Time Machine Editor and I has worked better for me


cheers


 [cheers1]


Apple needs to do more

xairbusdriver

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 3131
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2016, 01:30:29 AM »
Man, being misunderstood is certainly extremely easy around here. [banghead] At least I don't take it personally! [cheers1] Oh well... you win some, you lose some, and the rest get rained out. [lol]
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system

elagache

  • Global Moderator
  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 6649
    • DW3835
    • KCAORIND10
    • Canebas Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro-2, Mac mini (2018), macOS 10.14.3, WeatherCat 3
Worried about losing a "friend" (Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM)
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2016, 11:27:00 PM »
Dear Randall, X-Air, and WeatherCat Apple faithful,

This isn't an argument with you as much as a deep worry about where the company that has been my interface to IT for almost 30 years is headed.  Apple has had its ups and downs, but usually you had the feeling the company had its heart in the right place.

Steve Jobs has a real knack at deciding when Apple should become involved with new technologies.  He had a track record of letting other companies fight out the initial development of a new market and only after a product category was developed, bring Apple's expertise to bear and create a much better version of that product.

Tim Cook has obviously forgotten that aspect of Steve's strategy for Apple.  He is rushing headlong into all sorts of competition and making Apple into a very large company like Microsoft or IBM.  Apple was never a behemoth like that and that's how Steve Jobs wanted it.

I fear that long before Apple dies it is at a serious risk of "losing it soul."  I wish I had any idea on how to prevent it, but it is sadly like losing a friend to alcoholism or drug addiction.  It isn't an easy thing to take . . . . 

Edouard

Randall75

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 1332
  • CWOP-CW6734 WeatherUnderground-KOHNEWAR6
    • CW6734
    • KOHNEWAR6
    • Randy's Weather On The Hill
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus.iMac i5 OS High Sierra 10.13.6 8GB Ram, WeatherCat 3,Logitech 9000 Pro Web Cam
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2016, 01:02:01 AM »
Well put Edouard [tup]

Bull Winkus

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
  • 2013 iMac 2 x 27", OS Ver. 10.15.7
    • EW0095
    • KARHORSE2
    • WU for Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas
  • Station Details: Davis Wireless Vantage Pro 2, iMac 2 x 27"
Re: Time Machine using 36 GB of RAM on a Mac with only 16 GB ???
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2016, 04:36:55 AM »
Well, we could buy it and start calling the shots. Anyone with me? BTW, I've got Berkshire Hathaway on the line. I need an answer pretty quick.

Oops! Too late. Deal's closed. You can still get in on the open market, though. See you at the next bored meeting.

JK ;),
Herb