Trixology
Weather => Weather Hardware/Measurement => Topic started by: xairbusdriver on September 20, 2021, 07:01:28 PM
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Yesterday, I found an Admin Alert message reporting:
Sensor failure at sample time.
Failed sensors are:
External temperature
External humidity
WeatherCat TimeStamp: 11:13:03 19-Sep-21
24 hours later, I get this:
Sensor failure at sample time.
Failed sensors are:
External temperature
External humidity
WeatherCat TimeStamp: 11:13:03 20-Sep-21
Really? Exactly the same time (down to the second)! :o
Does WC actually do this sampling at exactly the same time every day or is this simply a coincidence and an indication of impending permanent failure? [rolleyes2]
I am already getting continuous, erroneous U.V. radiation reports. I have no U.V. sensors. [banghead]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
Yesterday, I found an Admin Alert message reporting:
. . . . .
Really? Exactly the same time (down to the second)! :o
If you have set your sampling interval that will repeat over time (say 5-10 minutes) then it is possible that WeatherCat would generate error messages right down to the second. Computers have enormous processing capacity, so that ultimately the CPU is actually idle a large fraction of the time. If the processing time to determine the error is the same - it should be down to the same second.
The more interesting question is whether or not the errors are real. What does the Live Data view tell you? If you are seeing errors then Davis is reporting some sort of sensor issues. The external temperature and humidity errors would appear to be the temperature/humidity sensor, but perhaps not. You will get the same errors if there are problems with the ISS communicating with your console. Have you replaced the ISS battery recently? I thought you have already changed your transmitter ID, but another possibility is that there is a conflict with another Davis station in the area.
Let us know what you discover. Sounds like you have at least a bit of station troubleshooting to engage in.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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"If you have set your sampling interval that will repeat over time"... I was thinking "Adaptive Sampling" might take care of that interval. We'll see how that goes the next few days... However, since the "sampling rate can be set to between 1 and 30 minutes" it seems near impossible to not normally repeat over time. Except for hours longer/shorter than 60 minutes. [lol]
I see four possible places to set a "sampling rate":
WC Prefs/Misc->Sampling Rate
WC Prefs/Simple Web/Update Web Pages Every
WC Prefs/Custom Web/Main/Update Web Pages Every
WC Prefs/Custom Web/Additional Files
The first three allow only whole minutes or hours. The last instance allows .1 to 10,000 (although I suspect that is actually 9,999) minute intervals. Mine are set to 2, 5, 10 or 30 minutes, so none would show a hh:03 time, unless the "Adaptive Sampling" caused an odd number minutes delay at some point in a day. Two or more days in a row?! [cat]
That may help explain whether the sensor "failures" are real or not. I would be more 'convinced', however, if they were reported more than once each 24 hours. [banghead]
There are many instances of "sampling" in The Manual. I'll not have time tomorrow to investigate, read and hopefully understand all of that tomorrow (out of town and state but hopefully not mind cmu:-)).
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
"If you have set your sampling interval that will repeat over time"... I was thinking "Adaptive Sampling" might take care of that interval.
That is normally a safe assumption, but if the weather has been very calm, Adaptive Sampling wouldn't ever occur.
That may help explain whether the sensor "failures" are real or not. I would be more 'convinced', however, if they were reported more than once each 24 hours. [banghead]
It is all speculation until you can get in front of your computer and check, but perhaps there is a periodic phenomenon that does happen around 11 am. Nothing comes to my head at the moment though.
There are many instances of "sampling" in The Manual. I'll not have time tomorrow to investigate, read and hopefully understand all of that tomorrow (out of town and state but hopefully not mind cmu:-)).
We too will have to wait to see what you discover when you are back in your own proper digs!
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Another email Alert today: WeatherCat TimeStamp: 11:16:44 21-Sep-21
24 hours, 3 minutes and 41 seconds after yesterdays.
"Live Data" shows that the Ext. Temperature while "Valid", has 49,435 errors. Not sure when it that count started. Had a reboot last week for the Security Update. I'll keep that window open and see when/if those errors increase. [rolleyes2]
Live Data:local time errors reading
5:16:01 - 49,699 73.7
5:19:00 - 49,746 "
5:22:00 - 49,828 "
5:25:00 - 49,903 "
5:31:00 - 50,056 "
5:52:00 - 50,606 "
6:13:00 - 51,153 "
All the following sensors are marked "Invalid": Ext. Temp, Ext. Humidity, Dew Point, Wind Chill, Solar Rad, My Cloud Base.
Most of those are used to compute the Cloud Base, I think. The data on the Console agrees that these sensors are not reporting correctly (shows only blank/underlines on its screen). I note that the Temperature and Humidity use the same connection in the ISS. I've attached the Temp/Dew Point and Humidity/Heat Index graphs and you can see the horizontal lines indicating when those values did not change for hours at a time. I also note that the errors seem to start around 11am! [rolleyes2]
The best news would be that another station is corrupting my transmitter. We just happen to have new neighbors just next door... I'll try changing the transmitters Station # tomorrow. Right now, I have my iPhone 6S sitting on a heating pad with its battery disconnected; I took my work clothes from today out of the washer and discovered a very clean iPhone....
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Mac mini
Found the Mac mini had restarted because of a "problem" about ~2am. WC was not running, of course. I don't know what the cause of the "problem" was since I can't make any sense of the reports in the new Console app. There is nothing in the "Crash Reports" section for today. There is a "DrainMessageOnCrash" item in the "system.log" at 8:26am, about the time I sent the reported "problem" to Apple. There is also a "Weather Cat Kicker launched" at that 8:36am time.
WeatherCat
Changed Station number on ISS. Matched the new number on Console. Rebooted WC.
No change in Live Data sensor status: Temperature, Humidity, Dew Point, Wind Chill still invalid.
Looks like real sensor (circuit board?) problems. Will try some contact cleaner... again. [banghead]
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Looks like I'll order the Davis 7346.070 - Pro2 Digital Temperature Humidity Sensor (Sensiron SHT31) 45 bucks from Scaled Instruments (https://www.scaledinstruments.com/shop/shop-by-category/temperature-humidity-sensor/davis-7346-070-pro2-digital-temperature-humidity-sensor-sensiron-sht31/). I'm sure I have the pre-2016 Vantage Pro since I still have the invoice for a replacement solar panel for the damaged one I bought in 2015. I'll know for sure when I disassemble the ISS. If the one I'm ordering is the newer model, there is a small calibration needed.
If anyone has another solution, please let me know. Meanwhile, I'll search the archives for the images Edouard post some years back on his mods to the ISS. [rockon]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
"Live Data" shows that the Ext. Temperature while "Valid", has 49,435 errors.
Well that shows there is something out of whack between the ISS and the console.
The best news would be that another station is corrupting my transmitter. We just happen to have new neighbors just next door... I'll try changing the transmitters Station
This is certainly possible. It has happened to me. Do let us know if the cure was as simple as changing the transmitter ID.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Changing the Station number did not help. Console was used to accept the new station number.
Live data has not changed since the lat reboot of WC, 13,453 ererz (and counting)! All the outputs that use the Temperature/Humidity sensor are not working (calculated sky, dew point, wind chill, etc.). That’s why I’ve ordered the new sensor. According to a recent email, “It’s in the Mail!”! ThU32:-) Hopefully collecting data by this time next week. [lol] :fingers crossed:
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Wouldn't you know... [rolleyes2]
Live Data now says most normal, basic sensors are now valid, including the "Leaf Wetness 4" sensor which I don't even have! All I had to do was order some parts! [computer] [lol]
At least one thing is a constant! Something is happening around 11am local. Previously, that's when things stopped being valid and the errors started. Today, everything was invalid until ~11am and then things changed to valid and data started to be collected again.
So, the question is: What the heck is happening and why??!! All I know is that it occurs around 11am! [banghead]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
Live Data now says most normal, basic sensors are now valid, including the "Leaf Wetness 4" sensor which I don't even have! All I had to do was order some parts! [computer] [lol]
That is a bad sign. What sort of values are you getting on those so-called "valid" sensors? Are the numbers perhaps the same as other sensors?
At least one thing is a constant! Something is happening around 11am local.
. . . .
That is a further indication that the problem is with the bottleneck between the ISS and the console. It is a single device failing.
So, the question is: What the heck is happening and why??!! All I know is that it occurs around 11am! [banghead]
I think it is time for you to go back to your Davis manual and see what sort of information you can ferret out from the console alone. Once you have gotten for yourself as much evidence as you can come up with, I think it is time to give Davis technical support a call. At the very least, they might be able go give you some additional tests to perform in order to isolate the source of the problem.
Sorry your station seems to be going on the fritz.
Edouard
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That is a bad sign.
I sort of agree. But only because I never discovered what the problem was. [rolleyes2]
What sort of values are you getting on those so-called "valid" sensors?
Normal. ThU32:-)
Are the numbers perhaps the same as other sensors?
Not sure I understand, but by "valid" I mean they are as close to the correct figures as I can see. They are not all the same numbers, if that's what you are asking. 8)
I'm not sure I can expect Davis to be of much help unless I can describe the problem while it is happening. Since ~11am on the 24th, the whole setup has been operating correctly. Of course, that's just a bit over 52 hours, but I don't think I will call Davis until things 'break' (if/when they do). The new Temp/Humidity sensor is supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I can always try swapping that. I suspect that will probably be less painful than trying to get a Davis rep on the phone! [lol]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
I'm not sure I can expect Davis to be of much help unless I can describe the problem while it is happening. Since ~11am on the 24th, the whole setup has been operating correctly.
Well, in case like this the old saying applies: "If it ain't broke - don't fix it!"
That is a bad sign.
I sort of agree. But only because I never discovered what the problem was. [rolleyes2]
True, but these days there are so many problems and so few solutions that it best to leave the problems you don't understand behind! :o
What sort of values are you getting on those so-called "valid" sensors?
Normal. ThU32:-)
I was wondering about the sensors that were reported as producing valid data but you don't own. Here is a quote from your posting on the 25th.
Live Data now says most normal, basic sensors are now valid, including the "Leaf Wetness 4" sensor which I don't even have!
I just double-checked, the Leaf Wetness sensor #4 reporting that it is valid when it doesn't exist is a known Davis bug. So you can safely ignore that one.
Keep your fingers crossed and hopefully it will turn out to be nothing more than some playful gremlins messin' with your mind and weather station! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/gremlin_emoticon.png)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Lost the Temp/humidity sensors again late on Sep 30, 2021. Swapped that sensor with a new one without any improvements. Barometer and Rain sensors both work. Changed ISS Station (1 or 3 or 5) and separate Anemometer (2 or 7) IDs several times but now only "sees" the ID for the Wind Station (7). Replaced batteries in Console after running it totally disconnected to AC adaptor (and USB Logger).
I am considering replacing the ISS: Davis 6322W, Wireless Vantage Pro2 Integrated Sensor Suite with Aerocone (w/o anemometer) $297.80 from Scaled Instruments.
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
Lost the Temp/humidity sensors again late on Sep 30, 2021. Swapped that sensor with a new one without any improvements. Barometer and Rain sensors both work. Changed ISS Station (1 or 3 or 5) and separate Anemometer (2 or 7) IDs several times but now only "sees" the ID for the Wind Station (7). Replaced batteries in Console after running it totally disconnected to AC adaptor (and USB Logger).
Sorry to hear that. I'm puzzled. I've never seen a situation where the ISS apparently could not transmit some of the sensor data, but still manages to transmit other data. Does it look like the plug for the Temperature/Humidity sensor is damaged at all?
I've forgotten, do you have a separate transmitter for your anemometer? If so, then the issues with the changing the transmitter ID strongly suggest that the ISS electronics has started to malfunction.
I am considering replacing the ISS: Davis 6322W, Wireless Vantage Pro2 Integrated Sensor Suite with Aerocone (w/o anemometer) $297.80 from Scaled Instruments.
Obviously, the more you replace, the more likely you'll solve your problem. If you don't mind spending some time on hold, you might give Davis technical support a call. They might have seen this sort of failure before and could tell you exactly what to replace.
Another possibility is to assume that the ISS circuit board is at fault and only replace that. Ryan at Scaled Instruments has those as well (of course! ;D )
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/shop/davis-instruments/parts/vantage-pro2-parts/transmitter-parts/davis-7345-951-2016-pcba-for-pro2-wireless-iss-or-iss-plus-us/ (https://www.scaledinstruments.com/shop/davis-instruments/parts/vantage-pro2-parts/transmitter-parts/davis-7345-951-2016-pcba-for-pro2-wireless-iss-or-iss-plus-us/)
That would reduce your capital costs by about 1/2, but has the downside that you would have to go through the pain of getting the circuit board in and out of your ISS housing and there is always the risk the problem is elsewhere.
[wink] . . . On the other hand, you can always count on the WeatherCat forum for some sort of advice! .(http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/scholarly_teacher.gif) . . . Of course, when it comes to the quality of that advice . . . . . Caveat Emptor! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/eek-sign.gif)
[biggrin]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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...do you have a separate transmitter for your anemometer?
Yes, it is mounted on the west end of the house, second story. The Station is accessible by a window. The actual anemometer, on a tall pole on the side of the "doghouse", is not accessible, according to my wife! [rolleyes2] It is within ten feet of the same distance of the Main ISS, but in addition to walls, there is also the upstairs flooring. It is the only Station that is seen by the Console, no matter what ID is assigned to it. Likewise, it is the only data now being collected, since the ISS (currently ID 5) is not recognized at all. [banghead]
I will hold of buying either the circuit board or the ISS until I talk with Davis. Perhaps they have a method I can use to better clean the RJ sockets/connectors. I found the un-used sockets quite full of "stuff" earlier this year. Spider webs?/silk cocoons?/dust?/bug skeletons?/etc. I'd like to be assured that those connectors are soldered directly to the circuit board, I'll take a look myself in the morning.
when it comes to the quality of that advice . . . Caveat Emptor!
I certainly have no problems with the quality of advice here!! ThU5:-) [lol] [rockon]
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Scrubbed, rinsed, dried and inspected the RJ sockets. Took the circuit board out to make it easier, only four screws. I now know how to remove a plastic clip that holds the grommet around the antenna in place. Those four screws go through four holes in what looks like a white "transmitter" cover. That cover also serves to keep the screws from protruding out the back of the main enclosure, BTW. There is actually nothing "on or inside" that "transmitter" cover. It may have some radio wave shielding capabilities, I dunno. It does cover the "super cap", in case you want to ever replace that item.
Restarted the Console and the two Stations (ISS: #6, Wind: #7) showed up! Made sure to have the ISS set to #6 and that #7 was also "On". Edited the 'crippled' html pages but "index.html" didn't seem to be updating by WC! [banghead] Quitting and restarting WC fixed that. ThU5:-) WC downloaded 512 bytes of mostly invalid data in the logger. Oh well.
System is back to normal for over 40 minutes!! WOW! OK, ok, not quite a record, but certainly an improvement from "DEAD"! It will be interesting to see how the hardware handles to nefarious 11 o'clock point! Fingers/toes crossed!! [rockon]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
Scrubbed, rinsed, dried and inspected the RJ sockets. Took the circuit board out to make it easier, only four screws. I now know how to remove a plastic clip that holds the grommet around the antenna in place. Those four screws go through four holes in what looks like a white "transmitter" cover. That cover also serves to keep the screws from protruding out the back of the main enclosure, BTW. There is actually nothing "on or inside" that "transmitter" cover. It may have some radio wave shielding capabilities, I dunno. It does cover the "super cap", in case you want to ever replace that item.
Congratulations! You now know how to replace your ISS board if need be. The trick is indeed freeing the antenna.
Restarted the Console and the two Stations (ISS: #6, Wind: #7) showed up!
. . .
System is back to normal for over 40 minutes!! WOW! OK, ok, not quite a record, but certainly an improvement from "DEAD"! It will be interesting to see how the hardware handles to nefarious 11 o'clock point! Fingers/toes crossed!! [rockon]
Congratulations on bringing your station back to life! ThU5:-) I didn't think you could get enough gunk in the RJ sockets to cause connection problems. I stand corrected! You have taught all of us another troubleshooting strategy that I would not have thought of otherwise.
I hope that indeed your station is back to normal! [sun2]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Congratulations on bringing your station back to life!
Wellll... maybe not quite. Unfortunately, the "Live Data" screen claims Wind Direction, Average Direction, and all four of the Gust Direction sensors are now Invalid. Trouble is, we're pretty much in a weather/wind 'dead zone', so there is little to no wind and I expect even less over night. We'll need a little 'stimulus' before I can agree that those sensors are not working. The Wind ISS has always been the first (and earlier, the only) Station to show up on a Console reset.
So, yes, I've learned a few things, but forgot about not counting chickens before they're bought! [banghead]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,
Congratulations on bringing your station back to life!
Wellll... maybe not quite. Unfortunately, the "Live Data" screen claims Wind Direction, Average Direction, and all four of the Gust Direction sensors are now Invalid. Trouble is, we're pretty much in a weather/wind 'dead zone', so there is little to no wind and I expect even less over night. We'll need a little 'stimulus' before I can agree that those sensors are not working. The Wind ISS has always been the first (and earlier, the only) Station to show up on a Console reset.
That's certainly another twist in the plot. It seems unlikely that your ISS and anemometer transmitter would fail at the same time. So the only component left that is a bottleneck is the console. Perhaps there is a problem with that?
So, yes, I've learned a few things, but forgot about not counting chickens before they're bought! [banghead]
Well, by all means do keep us posted!
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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I’ve actually mentioned concerns about the anemometer. The wind data has been significantly lower this year and I wrote it off as the result of large oaks along the north of our house and also two in the front yards of ours and a neighbors. There are also a large number of tall trees on all the lots across the street. I even have a new set of cups but have put off rounding up a “man-lift” because of the previous week of ISS failures. [banghead]
Life is pretty busy right now and will be until the end of the month. I’ll do what I can as soon as I can but I could use some good luck! [lol]
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat "trying to stay ahead of life" types,
I’ve actually mentioned concerns about the anemometer. The wind data has been significantly lower this year and I wrote it off as the result of large oaks along the north of our house and also two in the front yards of ours and a neighbors. There are also a large number of tall trees on all the lots across the street. I even have a new set of cups but have put off rounding up a “man-lift” because of the previous week of ISS failures. [banghead]
Not that this is particularly rigorous, but I've never heard of a Davis anemometer "slowing down." All I've ever heard of was the anemometer stopping to send data and therefore generating data errors (or nothing at all.) The wind speed is a simple counter. I suppose it could suffer a bearing failure that would cause it to slow down, but I've never seen a Davis station owner report that. No guarantees, but I would expect that Davis engineers were particularly concerned about bearing durability since their stations are supposed to be commercial research grade.
Life is pretty busy right now and will be until the end of the month. I’ll do what I can as soon as I can but I could use some good luck! [lol]
When it comes to being busy and in need of some good luck that makes two of us! Too bad you can't buy good luck at Costco - they would make a killing! lol(1)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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I suspect the "slowing down" is due to the increased wind blocking by the trees. The extra set of cups are a fairly inexpensive, if not convenient, fix, if the bearings have failed. The main problem is the necessity to climb on the 12/12 roof! I have been advised by the Chief Bottle-washer and Safety Officer, that I have passed the age of doing that task (even though I recently purchased a dark suit that will be fine for 'casket wear' ThU32:-) ). We are 'cursed' with a relatively small, tree covered lot, which created the need for a roof-top anemometer. Alas, I fear that the only alternative is either mounting the anemometer the way Davis provides or designing a ground mounted, tilting 35-40' 'contraption' near the current location (assuming SWMBO approves). The first order of bu$ine$$ will be to remove the roof mounting hardware.
In other news, I think I discovered (dreamed, literally!) of the last major brain-lapse concerning the reception of the Wind transmitter. "When all else fails, read the manual!" I remember seeing "Wind..." last week when I first started scrolling through the Console "Receiving from..." settings. Why do I not see anything like that now? The answer is in Step 4 in the "Setting Console/Receivers" section of the anemometer installations:Press GRAPH to change the type of station assigned to that transmitter ID. Press GRAPH until the word “WIND” appears.
Details, details, duh-tales!! [banghead] [blush]
I now have all the correct "Valid" channels showing. There has still been only very light "wind" but a few gusts are now appearing in the Wind graph and the Console shows the direction arrows changing occasionally. Only took 71,036 Sensor Errors for me to read the fourth step in the manual! [cheer] Of course, it has only been a few hours... still keeping my fingers crossed. [rolleyes2]
Thanks, again, for your helpful hints and suggestions!
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Dear X-Air and WeatherCat station caregivers,
I suspect the "slowing down" is due to the increased wind blocking by the trees. The extra set of cups are a fairly inexpensive, if not convenient, fix, if the bearings have failed. The main problem is the necessity to climb on the 12/12 roof!
. . . .
My sympathies on the problem of having an anemometer that is better located to collect data, but is very hard to reach. In my case, I just couldn't see any practical way to locate the anemometer to collect decent data, so I gave up and mounted it very close to the roof of the house. I console myself with the thought I know what the winds are where they can do damage. The benefit is that I can swap out the anemometer without any high-wire acts.
In other news, I think I discovered (dreamed, literally!) of the last major brain-lapse concerning the reception of the Wind transmitter. "When all else fails, read the manual!"
I now have all the correct "Valid" channels showing. There has still been only very light "wind" but a few gusts are now appearing in the Wind graph and the Console shows the direction arrows changing occasionally.
. . . .
Yes, we have all faced those "times that try men's souls" and finally had to read the manual! [biggrin]
I'm glad that your station is showing some signs of normalcy. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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In my trouble-shooting, equipment cleaning and general shootinging-in-the-dark exercises last week, I managed to 'confuse' the Davis Console. I had removed the batteries, disconnected the AC adaptor and even unplugged the data logger. That's generally a way, although not the accepted method, to rest/clear/remove/cancel any and all data from the Console.
A few days ago, I noticed that my "Yearly" Custom Gauge was showing zero! On the other hand, my Statistics page was reporting 40.31 inches. I've spent several hours editing the "10_WeatherCatData.cat" file. There has been no measurable rain here all month. But I found the "PY" (Annual Rain) column displayed 1019.56 on Oct 1 but 0.00 later in the month. And, after every edit, WC was still not updating my Yearly rain gauge! [banghead]
I spent several hours today preparing copies of the .cat file, the "STAT$RAIN:TOTAL:THISYEAR$" WC html tag and even an html table showing each month's totals and how it closely matched the yearly tag value. Finally, I searched the forums for some related info. ThU32:-)
I had actually posted about the real problem back in 2016 when I had replaced my Console! Frankly, I don't even remember replacing that thing! But there was the thread and the general solution: WC doesn't calculate the annual rain, it simply gets the data stored in the Console. The Console I had cleared of all that kind of useful data!
My yearly custom gauge is now back to normal! Unfortunately, I edited the Console with the value that WC has been reporting 40.31 inches. WC takes that value and converts it back to millimeters. The .cat file is file is now recording the annual rain (PY) as 1023.87. I'll see if I can enter a more accurate value in Console, but I'm not sure it's really worth it. 4.31mm = 0.169685in! If it ain't broke more than I can see, don't fix it!! [woohoo]
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Thanks to both of you for a very interesting thread. Glad you are back up and running and hope you stop fixing things that require reading the manual first as that does not appear to one of your strengths. :)
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"Manual? MANUAL?! We doan needno stinkin' manual!!!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE)