Trixology

General Category => General Computing/Macintosh => Topic started by: elagache on November 07, 2016, 11:14:04 PM

Title: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: elagache on November 07, 2016, 11:14:04 PM
Dear WeatherCat users who still remember the Apple Computer that Steve Jobs resurrected,

There was a stinging article on the techie website The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/) making a point by point critique of the latest MacBook Pro offerings:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/7/13548052/the-macbook-pro-lie (http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/7/13548052/the-macbook-pro-lie)

At the core of the complaint is that while Apple continues to make "cute" technology, it has gotten out of touch with what professional users of a computer need and want in order to be productive in their profession.  As a result, the MacBook Pro is no longer competitive with the latest PC Laptop offerings.  The article is only one of a number of blunt critiques that Apple has lost its way and is more a caricature of its former self than the technology leader it once was.

There is very little the Mac user community can do except perhaps use our pocketbook to encourage change.  If Apple doesn't offer us a product that really is a significant improvement over what we have now - indeed we are well served to keep what we have and allow Apple sales to slump as they should.

Certainly a sad time to be a Mac user (and that certainly isn't the only thing to be sad about . . . . ) (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/pout.gif)

Edouard
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: jhoke on November 08, 2016, 12:34:54 AM
It is a sad time... i've been through a few with Apple since my Apple ][ way back when ... but I have been seriously reviewing my options for the past few days - options outside of the Cuppertino offerings...

The iPhone 7 - meh, MBP a joke, nothing new for the MacPro/Desktop worth a damn... Apple is in a rut, and unless they can bring back Zombie Steve, I am not sure that it will get better this time.

Tim is far from up for the Job(s) and it's starting to show IMNSHO

Btw - I would love a touch panel - about the size of .. i dunno ... my screen!
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Steve on November 08, 2016, 02:12:59 AM
Today I just ordered the new 13" MacBook Pro in the 16GB/512 GB configuration with AppleCare and three dongles. This will be the most I have ever spent on a Mac other than the $1200 Quadra that had about $1500 in peripherals. And that was in 1993 dollars. (But then I also spent about $1800 on a VIC-20 with peripherals in 1982 dollars, too...)

The new MBP is for my daughter for Christmas, and replaces her very slow 2007 (?) MacBook for college. This will be the last computer I buy for her, so it is loaded to last. We looked at grabbing a remaining early 2015 MBP instead (the same as mine), but the only off the shelf configurations we could find were 8GB/512GB for about $400 less. The upgraded hardware will make it last a little longer before it to is too slow or too small.
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Steve on November 08, 2016, 02:17:01 AM
Wow, I jus did the conversion! $2700 in 1993 dollars is $4500 today. $1800 in 1982 dollars is $4529 today. Those were expensive computers!

Her new MBP is a steal! :D
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on November 08, 2016, 04:16:46 AM
By 'dongles' do you mean the various adapters and cables for the USB-C/Thunderbird 3? Apple supposedly reduced the prices for all those today. Just wanted to be sure you got the new, lower prices after the uproar over the previous prices. See the latest TIDbits issue.
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Blicj11 on November 08, 2016, 09:39:45 AM
Apple actually reduced dongle prices 4 days ago so Steve should be fine.
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Steve on November 08, 2016, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Blicj11 on November 08, 2016, 09:39:45 AM
Apple actually reduced dongle prices 4 days ago so Steve should be fine.

Yep, I got the cost reduced dongles:
  USB --> USB-C/Thunderbolt
  SD Card --> USB-C/Thunderbolt
  Lightning --> USB-C/Thunderbolt (for phone, but could have used current phone cord and USB dongle.)
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: wurzelmac on November 08, 2016, 04:39:05 PM
Anybody thinking of connecting a WeatherStation with such a dongle to the Mac??? If Apple Inc. does cut the Desktops, too, than I am afraid my Apple time is up.

 :-X :-X :-X

 :-[
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on November 08, 2016, 08:16:51 PM
Quote
If Apple Inc. does cut the Desktops, too, then I am afraid my Apple time is up.
That could take several more years. I know a guy who still supports Apple ][ computers, at least up till about two years ago!! He moved to another state and I no longer see him, so I'm not positive about those antiques! But I'm sure he still supports/sells early iMacs, even the multi-colored ones! I suspect there will be many "cottage industries" that will keep our Macs running until I'm into my 90's! ;) Who knows what we'll be using in 15 years?!

After all, it's not just the hardware that I like about the Mac. In fact, that part is not really much different than what runs Windows, anyway! But there is nothing like Mac software! You have to look no farther than WC to know that! ThU5:-)
Title: Sure hope Apple hears the wake-up call! (Re: Sad times for the Mac faithful.)
Post by: elagache on November 08, 2016, 11:35:39 PM
Dear John, Steve, X-Air, Blick, Reinhard, and WeatherCat Apple faithful, . . .

Quote from: jhoke on November 08, 2016, 12:34:54 AM
It is a sad time... i've been through a few with Apple since my Apple ][ way back when ... but I have been seriously reviewing my options for the past few days - options outside of the Cuppertino offerings...

The grumblings are getting louder and more public.  I hope Apple hears the wake up call!

Quote from: jhoke on November 08, 2016, 12:34:54 AM
Tim is far from up for the Job(s) and it's starting to show IMNSHO

What bothers me is that the investors haven't started grumbling yet.  They have the power to get Tim sacked.

Quote from: wurzelmac on November 08, 2016, 04:39:05 PM
Anybody thinking of connecting a WeatherStation with such a dongle to the Mac??? If Apple Inc. does cut the Desktops, too, than I am afraid my Apple time is up.

It isn't 9 to 5 professionals who need the more conventional technology - we are in the same boat.  The complaint seems simple enough: something that is cool isn't always practical and Macintosh users have practical needs as well.  Can Apple "grow up" and take care of their adult customers instead of pandering only to their addicts of "geeky cool" ??? ? ?

*Heavy sigh* . . . . . . Edouard  (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/sad-smiley.png)
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: HantaYo on November 11, 2016, 01:17:38 PM
Interesting my thoughts on migrating to Windows are being mirrored here in regards to Apple's lack of interest supporting the professional.  The demise of Apple's photography program called Aperture and it's replacement called Photos was a wake up call for me and has me really eying migrating back to Windows. Factor in the continuing decline in Pages, Keynote, and other Apple software really has me doubting Apple has much to offer me anymore.  Also, being forced to update the OS which eventually forces you to update your computer.  Sure the OS update is free but Apple rakes you over the coals with the price of their new hardware.  I find most of Apple's OS and software enhancements more a step backwards.  Seems like the trend is to remove functionality from everything it order to make the software more usable for touch screen devices.  For me a lot of the software/OS enhancements are just sugar coating- all that happens is your fingers get all gummy and you cannot get the job done like you used to be able to  [rainyluck]
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on November 11, 2016, 03:22:39 PM
I switched from Aperture to Lightroom just before Apple stopped development on the app. Never used iPhoto/Photos. Still use the original versions of Pages/Numbers/Keynote, although the
new' ones are installed and updated as needed to stop the 'nagging'.

Of course, you are free to use whatever hardware/OS/software you want. On the other hand, most software developers, whether Mac, Linux or Windows, always try to take advantage of the latest cpu offered by Intel/AMD/etc. I'm not sure you can blame Apple or any Windows computer maker for bringing out an updated OS.

The simple truth is, "Apple Computer" no longer exists. Just like Microsoft, it is trying to make all its OS work on all its hardware. MS doesn't even make hardware, so they have a much more difficult task.

Lastly,in my opinion, Apple has never been known as a computer for all professionals or professions. It usually is a battle to get a company to allow some one to use a Mac. There are exceptions in small areas, particularly the Arts. Frankly, I think most places that use lots of Macs do so because of its ease of use (including it's lack of successful hacks/malware), not its native software (iTunes, Photos, Pages, et all). I have many more "third-party" apps than native Apple ones, even in the Utilities category. In my opinion, if it weren't for these non-Apple devs, the company would have died years ago.
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Randall75 on November 11, 2016, 07:46:47 PM
My 2 cents worth
 Apple is now making most of it's money on the iPhone it can do just about anything a mac can do and alots cheaper to make than a iMac, MacBook and so on. Most of my apps are third party apps that I use on my macs the problem is that a lot of the software that I use will no longer run on the latest  OS's so I hope my old Macbook stays running a little longer I keep my 2011 iMac up to date with the latest OS but I am getting tried of spending more money to upgrade the apps to be used on the latest OS
Either lack behind or stay up with the new isn't life just fun any more it was so much easier before computers entered my world  lol(1)


cheers
 [cheers1]


Think it's time for another  [beer]


Title: My thoughts
Post by: dfw_pilot on November 20, 2016, 02:47:00 PM
My thoughts about dongles:
Title: Re: My thoughts
Post by: wurzelmac on November 20, 2016, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: dfw_pilot on November 20, 2016, 02:47:00 PM
My thoughts about dongles:

Signed.
Title: Two OWC commentaries (Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.)
Post by: elagache on November 20, 2016, 11:38:38 PM
Dear Reinhard, dfw, and WeatherCat faithful,

I have bought things from Other World Computing for literally decades.  They had two commentaries that also fit into this thread.  The first was a comment on the soldered SSD in the TouchBar MacBook Pro:

http://blog.macsales.com/38719-commentary-soldered-ssd-in-touch-bar-macbook-pro-brings-potential-issues-disappointment (http://blog.macsales.com/38719-commentary-soldered-ssd-in-touch-bar-macbook-pro-brings-potential-issues-disappointment)

and a more general commentary on Apple's direction with the Mac:

http://blog.macsales.com/36741-apple-should-renew-focus-on-mac-users-pros (http://blog.macsales.com/36741-apple-should-renew-focus-on-mac-users-pros)

Each is preaching to the choir but clearly the industry that has grown up around the Mac is really hurting as well.

Oh well, . . . . Edouard
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Steve on November 21, 2016, 03:19:37 PM
More bad new. Now the Airport is gone...

http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/21/apple-ceases-airport-wireless/
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on November 21, 2016, 04:21:36 PM
Read that this morning from a Bloomberg link in another tech site. My comments there mirrored the ones at MacRumors. "This ain't yourGrandfather's Apple!" [banghead] Long live the Corporation (which will soon be able to vote for, not just buy politicians)!
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on November 22, 2016, 03:06:18 PM
<More opinions about the future of the Mac. (http://tidbits.com/issue/1347)>
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on November 26, 2016, 10:42:59 PM
Is this an Apple "computer" thing?

I've been getting occasional notifications about Numbers having an Update available. I mistakenly opened a spreadsheet created in the old, non-crippled version (3.6.2), and decided to just let it stay "revised".

In order to get rid of/stop the nagging, I opened the App store and clicked on Update even though it indicated there were none available. Failing to see Numbers that way, I used the Search function and found, indeed, version 4.0.5 with a handy "Update" button. Clicked the Update button and enjoyed watching the spinning gear... for about 10 minutes. After that, I decided to quit Numbers thinking the App Store might not want it running during an update (contrary to every other experience I've ever had with AS before! Hey, it's a "new" Apple! Things are changing! [banghead] ). I actually took a break, even a nap, and returned to see that there was no update downloaded, nor in-progress. Clicking the Update button restarted the spinning gear, of course. [computer] [insert twiddling thumbs smiley here]

After another experience of boredom, I decided to seek word from the Apple "Support" Forums. They were nice enough to have my exact question already answered! The answer was actually staring at me on the App Store page, in the tiny, non-enlargable, not quite black, but ever so modern looking text: "Numbers 4.0.4 requires mac OS 12" [rolleyes2]

Apparently things at Apple have changed so much that it now cannot even tell what version of their OS we might be running! "Stupid is as stupid does." I bet this doesn't happen on iOS! >:( :o
Title: Company growing "old." (Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.)
Post by: elagache on November 28, 2016, 11:48:43 PM
Dear X-Air and WeatherCat fans of the "lean and mean" Apple Computer,

Quote from: xairbusdriver on November 26, 2016, 10:42:59 PM
Is this an Apple "computer" thing?

Sadly, it does seem to be a sign of "corporate aging."  What we could call a "senior moment" for a person perhaps should be called in this case a "Cupertino moment."

Sad times indeed for the Mac faithful, . . . . .

Edouard
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on December 13, 2016, 10:38:59 PM
A sadly amusing comment by the developer of a quite useful Mac app (not WC, BTW):
Quote
Bug fixes:...
Added a way to save debug logs so we can bypass Sierra's terrible Console logs.
Apparently, we 'consumers are not the only ones complaining. [rolleyes2]
Title: The murmur continues (Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.)
Post by: elagache on December 13, 2016, 11:41:17 PM
Dear X-Air and WeatherCat disappointed Mac faithful,

Thanks for the anecdote.  Indeed you'll find interesting snippets in the changelogs that indicate the developer community isn't exactly amused.

I just received my January 2017 MacLife magazine and the editorial couldn't help but thrash out the same issues with the latest MacBook Pro.

The Mac faithful are clearly being underwhelmed and that's not a good situation when they are use to Apple products being - "to use the slang" - AWEsome!!

Edouard
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: WCDev on December 14, 2016, 11:57:58 PM
Quote from: xairbusdriver on December 13, 2016, 10:38:59 PM
A sadly amusing comment by the developer of a quite useful Mac app (not WC, BTW):
Quote
Bug fixes:...
Added a way to save debug logs so we can bypass Sierra's terrible Console logs.
Apparently, we 'consumers are not the only ones complaining. [rolleyes2]
Yep, know that feeling - we implemented a similar change in the code set here a while back (for a future release).
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on January 10, 2017, 02:58:07 AM
More questionable "news" on the Mac planet of the Apple universe: Sal Soghoian has been laid off by Apple. Apparently, this actually happened last November (2016). Implications, meanings, questions, interpretations and responses in the latest TidBITS#1351/09-Jan-2017 (http://tidbits.com/article/16982).
<Sal Soghoian, Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Soghoian)>
<His new website (https://macosxautomation.com/about.html)>
Title: WOW! (Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.)
Post by: elagache on January 11, 2017, 12:15:15 AM
Dear X-Air and WeatherCat Apple faithful,

Quote from: xairbusdriver on January 10, 2017, 02:58:07 AM
More questionable "news" on the Mac planet of the Apple universe: Sal Soghoian has been laid off by Apple. Apparently, this actually happened last November (2016). Implications, meanings, questions, interpretations and responses in the latest TidBITS#1351/09-Jan-2017 (http://tidbits.com/article/16982).

Wow!  :(  It's bad on two counts.  1.) This is a fellow Apple really needed.  2.) You mean he was laid off because of some bureaucratic nonsense? . . . . at Apple Computer !?!?!?!??  Perhaps IBM should acquire Apple (or the other way around.)  It seems these two companies have apparently grown into the same sort of inflexible behemoths.

Sad times indeed!  (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/pout.gif)

Edouard
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on January 12, 2017, 04:00:19 AM
Symptoms of the changes:

This afternoon, my wife asked if I could help her with a printing problem. She had what appeared to be a one page spreadsheet she wanted to print. Unfortunately, when doing the command-P dance, the 'preview came up with nothing but the last few lines of what looked like just some text at the bottom of what was normally shown on screen!

I have always hated 'spreadsheets', the paper and the electronic types. I found their "design" always ugly, ungainly and difficult. I started using FileMaker when it was first available on the original Mac 'movables'. That was way before Apple bought the code (actually Pascal!) and took over the development. If I wanted a 'spreadsheet' "display" of the data, that was easy. I just didn't see any point in mot making the entry and display as easy on the eye as the rest of the Mac experience!

Hardly ever use Numbers, still looks like a 'spreadsheet'! Don't do any 'data crunching'. ;) And that apps move to mobile has never interested me either. But, my wife needed help, so...

First thing I noticed: there is no "Print Setup" menu item! Apparently, that has all but disappeared from all Apple apps. The Print Dialog was no help, none of the items even hinted at how to set up the spreadsheet to print certain areas on a "page". Used, or should I say I opened the Help app. I'm sure I have found help in that system sometime, I just can't remember when. [banghead]

The solution, of course, was on the web. Found a couple of Apple "Support" entries asking the same general question: How in the world do I print a certain part of a Numbers document?! I still think there is some way to divide a document into printable sections, but I gave up since the 'solution' was so simple.
Quote
  • Select the rows/columns you want to print.
  • Use the command-C to copy the data.
  • Open Preview.
  • Use the File->New from Clipboard menu item.
  • Print "command-P"
OK, there is a step 3... still, it is about as far away fro intuitive as even MS could make it!!! [rolleyes2]

A comment in one of the two posts I found sums it up very nicely.
Quote
Printing in Numbers is different than excel. You will help yourself a lot if you "forget" what you know about printing when using Numbers.
Apple calls this "progress".
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: Blicj11 on January 12, 2017, 05:15:54 AM
Been using spreadsheets since SuperCalc ran on 128KB disk on Raytheon Word Processors. They can do just about anything. Just like any other technology, you have to learn how to use the software. It's definitely more complicated than it used to be, but it does more stuff.

Speaking of stuff, found a quote I like: "You can never get enough of what you don't need, because what you don't need won't satisfy you." - Dallin H. Oaks

I know this is true because I have lots of what I don't need. And I don't have enough of it.

Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: jace on January 12, 2017, 09:14:46 PM
Found a good article at Gizmodo which lists the high level employees who have left Apple since Jan 2016, and the companies they now work for if known. Tesla is recruiting a lot of them.

Bob Kupbens, VP Apple online store - eBay
Hiroki Asai, VP global marketing communications
Yoky Matsuoka, Health at Apple
Danny Coster, director of product design (member of Jony Ive?s industrial design team) - Go Pro
Sarah O?Brien, PR - Tesla
Colin Smith, PR - Ford
Michaela Johndrow, PR - Ford
Chris Lattner, director of developer tools - Tesla
Matt Casebolt, director of product design - Tesla
David Erhart, director of reliability engineering - Tesla
Chester Chipperfield, special projects - Tesla
Charles Kuehmann. director of product design - Tesla
Steve Zadesky, Project Titan (Apple car) boss
Sal Soghoian, product manager of automation technologies
Daniel Gross, software director- Y Combinator
Thomas Zwingman, senior staff reliability engineer - Tesla
Sankarshan Murthy, product manager, worked on Apple Watch and iPhone 5C - Tesla
Timothy Hatcher, software engineering manager on WebKit - Tesla
Teresa Brewer, PR - SurveyMonkey
Bart Nabbe special projects - Faraday Future
David Finkelstein, manager of cryptographic security - Google
Ryan Walsh, senior product for media - Floodgate
Andrew Graham, motion sensors engineer - Tesla
Brooke Michael Kain, head of digital marketing for Apple Music and iTunes - AEG Live

JC
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: xairbusdriver on January 13, 2017, 02:07:02 AM
This TedTalk came across my desk yesterday. Finally watched it today. Still not impressed with spread sheets. I think it's the grid layout restrictions. Don't like restrictions. I was also amazed at the work people did trying to use a spread sheet as a database, and ugly ones, at that!

That's one reason I started using FileMaker; you can actually design things with it! Put items for the input screen where you want! Display (and print) the data in a completely different manner, if you want. It made data conform to the WYSIWYG pattern! It actually used "layers" even before Adobe brought out Photoshop!

I actually had little need for either a spread sheet or a database. I actually used FileMaker as a page layout app! You can put anything a computer can create anywhere on a page! Frankly, it's easier to use for page layout than Pages! Easier to use for data collection than Numbers! I'm just glad I never had to put my accounting degree to any financial functions or use any kind of spread sheet!

Oh well, here's a link to the <TedTalk (http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_bricklin_meet_the_inventor_of_the_electronic_spreadsheet?utm_source=newsletter_daily&utm_campaign=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=button__2017-01-11)> by the guy who invented VisiCalc. 8)
Title: Re: Sad times for the Macintosh faithful.
Post by: The Grand Poohbah on January 13, 2017, 06:42:48 PM
That is a great TED talk about the invention of VISICALC. Thanks for sharing it. I remember when we put VISICALC on the Atari 800 in 1981 and then, in 1982, developing the "Workslate", a 8x10 notebook computer that was build around a spreadsheet. The concept of a "spreadsheet" was truly a game changer for personal and business computing.