Trixology

Weather => Weather Hardware/Measurement => Topic started by: xairbusdriver on February 26, 2015, 06:32:51 PM

Title: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 26, 2015, 06:32:51 PM
I'm confused about "Standard" (6252), add-on "Day-time" (7747), and the 6153 (24/7) radiation shields on the Wireless Vantage Pro2 kit. As I understand the power for this uint, there is a solar array that normally powers the station by keeping a larger capacitor charged. At night or after a long period of cloudy weather, the capacitor can keep the station powered for quite a while. When/if the capacitor voltage gets low enough, there is a small lithium battery that can power the station for...(?).

It appears that most here recommend the 'fan assist' over the "Standard" shield, even in moderate climates. So...
Does the 6153 also include another battery/capacitor in order to run 24/7? It appears to include an additional solar array for the extra ~$160US (retail) over the add-on "Day-time" fan/array. I'm pretty handy with a large hammer, so I think I could handle the retrofit.  [lol2]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on February 26, 2015, 07:44:55 PM
Good questions.

First, you are comparing a Vantage Vue 6252 with a Vantage Pro2 6153. The Add-on 7747 is a kit to retrofit the Vantage Pro2 6152, which does not have the aspirated fan shield.

Second, I'd recommend you first decide whether you want a Vue or a Pro2. The Vue is cheaper and provides the basics. The Pro2 is more versatile and a bit more accurate. I went with the Pro2 because you can disconnect the anemometer from the ISS and place it somewhere else for more accurate wind speed and directions readings. Also, I think the black rain collector cone melts snow quicker in the winter. Pro2 is better for places where there are large snow storms. Others may chime in here with differing opinions.

Third, if you live someplace where you have lots of sunshine and periods of little or no wind, the fan aspirated radiation shield gives you a more accurate temperature reading. I live in the mountains where there is always some kind of wind and I don't need the fan.

Fourth, with regards to the solar unit and battery, you are correct. The battery only takes over when the capacitor is empty. The solar unit does not charge the battery. Many Davis owners change their battery in the ISS unit every summer so they don't get caught having to change it during a blizzard. I just let my battery run until it dies. WeatherCat let's you check the voltage so you know when you need to replace. My first battery lasted almost 7 years. When I changed it, someone was helping me and he forgot to plug the solar unit back into the control panel in the ISS so the battery was used continuously and it lasted 5 months.

If you are checking prices on Davis hardware, here are some places to include in your search:

http://www.scientificsales.com/default.asp
http://www.rainmanweather.com/site/Davis-Best-Price-Quote
http://www.provantage.com/davis-instruments-weather-environmental~50ENVIR_DAVS.htm

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 26, 2015, 10:28:00 PM
Quote
First...
Agreed.
Quote
Second...
I think my siting will be easier with at least the anemometer separated from the other parts... similar to your situation.
 :-\ Which brings up another question that I need to search the threads about. [later]OK, I now understand that the anemometer is the only thing that can be separated from these stations. I was hoping the rain gauge could be mounted remotely, also. Oh well, just makes correct siting more important.

Quote
Third...
In the planned location, there will be morning Sun except in Winter. But that site is also protected from winds. Memphis, TN area, so we don't get much snow, it is supposed to be only on odd numbered years. :) I'll post a satellite view of my property before making any installations. I always try to have some one to blame...  :P

Quote
Fourth..., you are correct.
I plan on showing this part (only) to my wife!

Thanks for the Provantage link, I gathered four others from various threads. I saw a page on the WiKi that had five, but I've been unable to find that page today. Maybe that was the fifth source!

Thanks, Blick
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 26, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
Another question (I got a million of 'em!  :D ):

Quote from: blick
I think the black rain collector cone melts snow quicker in the winter.
And it looks like the 6152 has the black one as opposed to the one on the Vue. We don't usually get much snow, but we do get ice storms. I don't think the 6152 has a heater, but I hope the opening is big enough to hold at least an inch of sleet/freezing rain... OTOH, how is the expansion of freezing/thawing water handled? As I understand it, rain is dumped automatically every so often. And a minimal amount is even measured. Is that how the station avoids freezing water from breaking the container?
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: LesCimes on February 26, 2015, 11:38:10 PM
Fun to read of another weather station being planned! The hobby is a bit addicting and has certain pragmatic benefits too.

I purchased the VP2 without the fan; I live in central Georgia, climate therefore similar to Memphis. Added the fan kit after the fact. Unfortunately, I just determined that the fan no longer works. I guess it worked five years or so - not sure when it quit working. So, there might be some advantage to buying the model with the 24/7 fan feature. That is what I'd buy if I could get a new one now.

The heater for the rain gauge is an optional and separate purchase. Freezing and ice hasn't been a problem. The rain bucket capacity is plenty large. I have never had a problem with my VP2 in ice storms. Yes, it freezes up but it clears out rapidly in the thaw. Tipper mechanism none the worse for the wear.

Keep the forum uptodate on your progress. Congrats.
Title: Main differences (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on February 27, 2015, 12:38:35 AM
Dear xairbusdriver, Blick, LesCimes, and WeatherCat station planners,

I'm confused about "Standard" (6252), add-on "Day-time" (7747), and the 6153 (24/7) radiation shields on the Wireless Vantage Pro2 kit.

Sorry, I'm normally able to jump in and help out, but definitely running ragged at the moment. 

The standard radiation shields just don't work that well under any circumstances.  So if you want really good temperature data, you are better off (assuming you can afford it) to buy the 24/7 fan aspirated station.  However, there are some gotchas.  Those stations have rechargeable batteries that won't last forever and the motors also will wear out eventually.  The grape-vine is reporting that the quality of Davis motors had gone down recently, so motor problems are likely to be more frequent.

I ended up using one of the "Day-time only" add-on kits when I recently moved my station transmitter from in the sunshine to under a deck.  To do that I ended up powering my station transmitter with a Davis AC adapter.  With AC handy, I'm powering my add-on fan using a universal AC adapter.  Unfortunately, that fan is already rattling.  To replace it, I'm going to use a fan for PC cases.  Those fans are tough and very quiet.

So something else you could consider is if you could power your station from AC.  It is odd-ball and will cost you a bit more, but it avoids the maintenance expenses later on of replacing batteries and having to buy motors only from Davis.

Some more food for thought for you!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 27, 2015, 12:39:40 AM
Quote from: LesCimes
Unfortunately, I just determined that the fan no longer works...there might be some advantage to buying the model with the 24/7 fan
Assuming it is a better fan! :) If not, it just might wear out twice as fast! :'(

Just got through reading the installation manual. Noticed that in cleaning the rain gauge it suggests using a pipe cleaner "to clear the funnel hole in the cone". That leads me to think expanding ice might not be a problem as it will simply 'move' upwards in the cone if it freezes. Apparently, that small hole allows a rather long and/or slow 'flow' of water into the tipping cups. At worst, the rain (snow/sleet) rate would be less than actual, but the total probably very accurate, at least in our climate which usually doesn't remain below freezing for more than a couple of days. Looks like the tipper cups are designed to retain a very small amount of liquid, that would also help prevent any freezing damage. Cleaning out the drain in the main body would be important to remember, also. I assume that's the only way the rain can get out after the tipper cups dump it.

I'm leaning (already?!) toward doing the same thing you did. Spreading out the hit on the pocket book and waiting buying the day-time fan later. If my temps end up being way off that would be a signal to buy it. The difference in price should pay for a pretty accurate (non-wired, eye-ball read, heresy?) thermometer I can mount under the covered area that is well protected from the sun. [thinking]

Quote
...an optional and separate purchase.
I'm beginning to think that is a big part of this hobby! Seems to be a key goal of most businesses! ;) Worked out that way form our little fish pond! :) Pretty much part of life, actually! ;D

Thanks for your sharing your experiences!
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 27, 2015, 12:49:21 AM
Hello, Edouard,

I read about your experience with those motors and your plan to use a PC fan. Unfortunately, it may be that I have to mount the whole shebang (sorry for using technical terms) on a post/pole in the middle of the back yard. That precludes using AC. I was not sure how that full-time fan was powered.

Now I'm confused (again?!). Davis claims the add-on 'day-time' FAR is "half the cost" of the full-time FAR. Maybe they mean compared to adding the full-time afterward.
But, they also claim that it runs only on the included solar panel, "no batteries required". Still no guarantees on how long it should last, of course! Here's the page that's confusing me: <Daytime FAR Shield Kit (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=07747)>

I think I need to get an image showing my siting possibilities before getting too carried away with this project. ;)

Thanks for your help!
Title: More details and info. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on February 27, 2015, 10:42:54 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station caregivers,

Just got through reading the installation manual. Noticed that in cleaning the rain gauge it suggests using a pipe cleaner "to clear the funnel hole in the cone".

I think that advice refers to something like leaves, flowers, or other debris that had been blown into the rain gauge.  I usually using an air duster to remove things like that after removing the collector cone.  That way I can blow the item from the other side.


I'm leaning (already?!) toward doing the same thing you did. Spreading out the hit on the pocket book and waiting buying the day-time fan later. If my temps end up being way off that would be a signal to buy it. The difference in price should pay for a pretty accurate (non-wired, eye-ball read, heresy?) thermometer I can mount under the covered area that is well protected from the sun. [thinking]

There is another way to think about the problem.  If you are going to have a accurate thermometer that isn't going to be included in your WeatherCat data that's kind of defeating the purpose of having a weather station in the first place.

What I ended up doing is buy the housing for a Davis temperature/humidity station (6382) (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06382)  I then moved my station transmitter board into that.  Then I ran cable extensions to all my other weather instruments.  Davis says you can run at least 50 feet with most of the instruments.  In some cases much longer.  That way I got the accurate temperature data I wanted but had my other instruments where I could get good wind, rainfall, and solar radiation.  Here is a link to the data cable extension kits:

http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/install_cables.asp (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/install_cables.asp)

I read about your experience with those motors and your plan to use a PC fan. Unfortunately, it may be that I have to mount the whole shebang (sorry for using technical terms) on a post/pole in the middle of the back yard. That precludes using AC. I was not sure how that full-time fan was powered.

It is difficult to get accurate temperature data if you leave your temperature/humidity probe in full sun.  The Davis FARS setup comes as close as possible but even it does best when you mount it relatively high over terrain like grass.  If you do that, then accessing your rain gauge can become more difficult.  In my case I had a deck with AC power available.  So I mounted my temperature/humidity probe under that.  So there is no possibility of sun exposure at all.  I did have a problem though.  The air was so stagnant under the deck that I reading would be off under conditions of very still air.  Adding the fan has now solved that problem.

Unfortunately, I just made that switch of the transmitter location and I still haven't had time to write up how I did it, but it is something to consider if indeed you have some sun-protected location were you could put the Davis temperature/humidity probe.

Cheers, Edouard
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2015, 03:06:54 AM
Hi Xairbusdriver, and welcome to the forum!

You asked about separating the precipitation cone from the rest of the system. That is possible with the purchase of a second base and making a longer cable. You could have the anemometer, precipitation cone, and the temp/humidity sensors in three locations.

And a note on the different FARS units. As you've seen, you can purchase the daytime FARS after buying the unit. But the 24 hour FARS is not available separately, and is completely different inside than the non-FARS or daytime FARS units. There is an internal cylinder where the temp/humidity sensors are suspended, and a top-mounted fan to draw air up through the cylinder. This helps tremendously on those stagnant days OR nights to show the correct temperature and humidity. If you have a constant breeze, this isn't such an advantage, but if you do have frequent times of stagnant air, I highly recommend trying to find the extra funds for the 24-hour FARS.

Like Edouard, I have had fan problems. One was replaced by Davis at no charge, and it looks like I need to replace another one.

Steve
Title: Re: More details and info. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: Felix on February 28, 2015, 11:39:27 AM

<snip>
In my case I had a deck with AC power available.  So I mounted my temperature/humidity probe under that.  So there is no possibility of sun exposure at all.  I did have a problem though.  The air was so stagnant under the deck that I reading would be off under conditions of very still air.  Adding the fan has now solved that problem.
<snip>

Except that the deck itself and the gravel/concrete/etc under it (plus the house since it's in close proximity) acts as a giant heat sink. The result is that your gauge readings will always lag what you'd get from a sensor suite set up closer to the NOAA guidelines. And naturally there'll be data 'smoothing' since the under deck sensors aren't able to react as quickly to rapidly changing conditions.

Not saying any of that is bad, we all have to adjust our sensor sitings to make best use of the area available. Plus, much of the attraction of maintaining a PWS is knowing the microclimate conditions at our exact location...versus some airport miles away or a localized best guess.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2015, 04:01:57 PM
For reference, here's a link to the replacement base to allow separating the ISS and rain collector assemblies. For only $18, it is an inexpensive option. You'd also need the hardware to mount the second base.

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-7342-074-pro2-rain-collector-base/

(https://www.scaledinstruments.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/7342.0741-500x380.jpg)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 28, 2015, 04:03:16 PM
I haven't posted an image of my rather small back yard, yet. It's probably no more of a problem than many other "suburban" folks have in siting these stations. :) After reading the NOAA details, I thought about moving the anemometer to a pole on the highest peak of our roof. Davis has kindly anticipated that problem by 'offering' what looks to be basically a slightly modified ISS package. ;) Then there are the masts and mounting hardware... and you and I suspect the only sensor that will have recurring problems will be the one on a pole at the highest point on the 12/12 roof! :P Maybe I can also permanently mount a ladder to that thing; maybe even one of those mini chairlift things to avoid climbing the stairs... Yeah, and maybe I need to see about a loan before the rates go up... [lol2]

I liked the idea of mounting the temp/humid sensor under the back 'porch' roof, but that would still require running a wire over 40' to the rain gauge or buying yet another remote ISS! While that 'porch' has pretty good circulation, the floor is actually brick that will get lots of sunlight in Summer. There are ceiling fans, but running those three AC motors will certainly add to the electricity bill!

Another possible problem with the 'porch' location may be aesthetics! I have not yet broached the subject of a "Weather Station" in the yard to SWMBO*. Some weird looking box on the 'porch' wall/ceiling may be even more 'controversial'! :o I think it may be easier to mount the main station in the middle of the most open spot in the yard and let the abundant foliage hide it from view of certain, unnamed household members!! ;D

Does anyone think I'm over-thinking this?!  [biggrin]

* Also known as "She Who Must Be Obeyed"
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2015, 04:15:55 PM
Does anyone think I'm over-thinking this?!

Nah, we've all done this. I started out planning to get a $109 cheap unit, and ended up with the Vantage Pro2 Plus with remote anemometer, soil station, second console, etc. I just moved the decimal point one place. (and then some...  :o )

Take your time and figure out what you want in the long run. Some things you can defer (such as the additional temp/humidity station or remote anemometer) and some you need to decide up front (such as 24 hour FARS.) You can add solar/UV, or buy it with the station. It costs less as a unit, but allows spreading the cost out if you do it piecemeal.

Be sure you are looking at the *discounted* prices at Rainman Weather, Scaled Instruments, etc. Davis does not allow advertising lowest prices, so all the dealers have pages with substantially lower prices. You can save hundreds on a top of the line system.

But most of all, have fun. The planning/buying/waiting stage is as much fun as the fiddling with it state once you get a station. :)

There's a link around here somewhere showing several setups for our stations. Here's my web page detailing my system. Feel free to peruse and ask any questions. http://www.avon-weather.com/about.html

Steve

[EDIT] By the way, I got my mast and tripod from Radio Shack for quite a bit less than the cost of the official Davis Mast. They're probably both made by the same supplier...
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 28, 2015, 04:35:42 PM
I've already visited your site! ;) I agree about the price thing, I've bookmarked at least four sources, gleaned from Trixology. The threads here are full of useful advice and hands-on experience, and not just about one brand, either. Even found a couple of 'antenna' dealers for masts and tripods (most claiming to be "Made in the USA", uhmn, yeah, these things are not designed for shipping overseas :o) Also agree that 'planning' is as enjoyable as the trip! 8)

BTW, I think that <'setups' thread (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.0)> may be in the 'pinned' section of the "Hardware/Measurement" forums. Been there, done that, also! [lol2]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 28, 2015, 04:56:43 PM
OT: Steve, I had never seen or heard of that Sunlight Recorder! The WiKi page says:
Quote
There are no moving parts and it thus requires very little maintenance.
I can only assume that the Sun is not considered as a "part" since it is 'pre-installed'! [lol2] That might help in alleviating some potential concerns from SWMBO... assuming one could be found inexpensively! I suspect it might be more expensive that a Davis Pro2 Plus!! :o ...er ...uhmn, no 'suspecting'! ...it obviously is expensive! Even the cards were over $150 US for a package of 380!!! Looks like that might last over a year, [thinking]! [rockon]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Steve on February 28, 2015, 05:34:27 PM
Yep, the sunshine recorder is a beauty, but I don't use the cards I have. I really should buy some more before they can't be found at any cost! I sure stumbled into a great deal on that bit of hardware.  [sun3]

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=361.0


BTW, I was going to mention the heater, and forgot. While some of us have the Davis heater, there are also several that use an inexpensive reptile heating strip to melt snow/ice, keeping the cone measuring actual current precipitation.

Steve
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on February 28, 2015, 05:38:34 PM
I completely agree with everything Steve says about this. Take your time and think it through. Get what you want. Pay a little more for quality. Don't think you have to get everything from Davis. My mate fabricated my anemometer pole and bracket and it's way better than anything I could have purchased retail.

It sounds like you've thought about this, but I just want to emphasize that sometimes you have to give up the ideal site for practicality. You do have to do some annual maintenance on the ISS so you don't want it stuck up somewhere that is not practical or safe to easily reach. One of my mates put his anemometer on a pole he rigged up on his rooftop. It works great, but frequently spider webs get wrapped around the entire thing and he has to climb back up there to clean them off.

http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Station_Maintenance
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on February 28, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
I have not yet broached the subject of a "Weather Station" in the yard to SWMBO*.

Love your reference to Rumpole. Some of the most enjoyable books I have read.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 28, 2015, 06:55:41 PM
Quote from: Blick
sometimes you have to give up the ideal site for practicality
Well, there is about 140 acres on the other side of my back fence... I could put everything about 500' behind the fence... might get 'damaged' the next time they mow the hay, however... I might as well post an image of the "landscape" to show the lack of open space I have. BTW, I found a nice site that can provide Lt/Long + altitude and a clearer Google image: <EarthTools.org (http://www.earthtools.org)> Unknown accuracy, of course, but the US Geological survey site seems to have changed a bit since the info was posted in the CWOP pubs.

Quote from: Blick
...spider webs get wrapped around the entire thing and he has to climb back up there to clean them off
Couldn't I just use a shotgun?! Or just teach spiders to fear heights! 8)

Right now, I'm intrigued my the post mount Steve used. Closest thing I can find is this <'spike' mount (http://www.amazon.com/USP-Structural-Connectors-SFP30-Installation/dp/B000CSG9Q4/ref=pd_sbs_lg_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=0BQGMW7R840F99QA6ZC7)>. Seems a bit over-kill to dig a hole for concrete, etc. for something like <this (http://www.amazon.com/Simpson-Strong-FPBB44-Black-Finish/dp/B007W1874G%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-osx-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB007W1874G)>.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on February 28, 2015, 07:42:28 PM
Site choices:
"A" and "B" are as close to "open space" as it gets in the back yard. "W" is for the proposed anemometer (with another ISS) on a 5' tripod holding at least a 5' mast.

"C" is more open but would be subject to neighbor approval and would place the ISS farthest from the location of the Console at "R".
[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
Title: This and that (Was: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on February 28, 2015, 11:08:19 PM
Dear xairbusdriver, Steve, Felix, and WeatherCat station layout designers,

Except that the deck itself and the gravel/concrete/etc under it (plus the house since it's in close proximity) acts as a giant heat sink. The result is that your gauge readings will always lag what you'd get from a sensor suite set up closer to the NOAA guidelines. And naturally there'll be data 'smoothing' since the under deck sensors aren't able to react as quickly to rapidly changing conditions.

Actually my location is much better than you suggest.  Take a look at a photo on my website:

(http://www.canebas.org/Weather/Graphics/Exterior_sensors.png)

The deck is large and there are trees to the east, south and west.  Also, the thermometer is mounted a long way from the house and the area under the deck only gets sun exposure for the earliest part of the morning.  All other times it is in the shade.  Air does get stagnant under the deck, but for many years I had two Davis thermometers and they were very close when the sun wasn't beating on the other one.

As you've seen, you can purchase the daytime FARS after buying the unit. But the 24 hour FARS is not available separately, and is completely different inside than the non-FARS or daytime FARS units.

Officially this is true but Scaled Instruments parts out Davis stations and will sell you a FARS unit:

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-6153s-24hr-solar-powered-aspirated-shield-for-pro2/ (https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-6153s-24hr-solar-powered-aspirated-shield-for-pro2/)

"A" and "B" are as close to "open space" as it gets in the back yard. "W" is for the proposed anemometer (with another ISS) on a 5' tripod holding at least a 5' mast.

"C" is more open but would be subject to neighbor approval and would place the ISS farthest from the location of the Console at "R".

Keep in mind that you can run your anemometer cable a long way.  I think the Davis techs said 250 feet, but you should double-check before running it that far.  Something else you might consider related to Steve's suggestion is to simply mount the temperature/humidity probe and rain gauge at separate locations on a tall pole.

The higher your temperature/humidity probe is, the better the temperature reading will be.  On the other hand the rain gauge should be easy to reach as it needs more frequent maintenance and doesn't need to be very high to give accurate readings.  You can use the extra rain gauge mount that Steve suggested to do this and extend the rain gauge cable as I've done.  I would suggest not mounting the temperature/humidity probe higher than the reach of a step-ladder since that is where your station transmitter would also have to be located and that does require occasional maintenance. 

It will always be true that a FARS station will give you better data, but you might start out with a standard radiation shield mounted high up over some of the grass at locations A or B and see how that works.  If you decide you want the FARS rig, you can still upgrade from Scaled Instruments.

Hopefully some more ideas to daydream about!  [sleep]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 01, 2015, 02:27:53 AM
Cable runs are pretty dangerous; there is a 'grand-dawg' that loves to dig in that area quite often! Nor do I want to have it 'overhead' where the squirrels/birds could walk/land.

I'm thinking maybe we should just buy 40 acres and start with a clean slate/yard! [lol2]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 01, 2015, 06:02:20 AM
Hello there xairbusdriver, and welcome to the Trixology threads!

I just wanted to chip in my unexpurgated 2? worth. A little about me. I've only been keeping a VantagePro2 setup since 2010, so there are many here with more weather data experience, and probably a good deal smarter. However, my background is in metrology as an instrument technician. I'm retired from Abbott Laboratories after 10 years doing calibration maintenance in pharmaceuticals manufacturing. But, I noticed you kept referring to setting up your anemometer on a second ISS, so perhaps a little clarification is in order. The Davis system is a good one and is easily set up and maintained, because it is canned. That is to say, it is a highly specific cluster of data collection channels under one bundle. In other words, you can only use one ISS with one computer at one time. That cluster will give you a specific number of channels for specific data collection purposes, though only a few are used with the initially purchased equipment. The software, WeatherCat (WC) or otherwise, is locked into collecting data from the array of possibilities from the single ISS and other transmitters designed to exist on the wireless communications protocol being used, and its limited number of channels.

You can have more than one ISS, but for each computer and instance of WeatherCat you'll have to choose which ISS to get feed from, to the exclusion of the other. To collect from both, you'll need another instance of WC running somewhere else.

However, Davis does supply a wireless transmitter with solar & battery for use with the Anemometer. It also provides additional temperature/humidity channels and transmitter hardware as well as ones for soil moisture/temperature.

I located my anemometer on the peak of my roof, mounted on a mast attached to the roof with a tripod. It works very well, despite the numerous trees on the property. The only problem is servicing it about once or twice a year means climbing that ladder. I've got the ISS and rain gauge on my lot next door, mounted on a galvanized pole, a technique I learned from Steve. No cement in the hole, though. Just dirt & rocks and, of course, the pole. I don't buy into the necessity of fan aspiration. When mounted over grass at about 5 ft and away from radiant structures, the only issue to cause temperature offset is solar heat gain in still air. Since that is a very small percent of the time here, I don't concern myself with it.

Best of luck with your installation. Remember, there are no dumb questions if you can filter out the dumb answers.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 01, 2015, 06:15:56 AM
One thing for sure, we love to help other forum members spend their money! It always costs me less to help you buy your hardware than if you are helping me buy mine. The number one rule in this hobby is Have Fun.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 01, 2015, 03:45:25 PM
First, thanks for the welcome!

Quote from: Bull
I noticed you kept referring to setting up your anemometer on a second ISS
My bad. :-X What I called an "ISS" was really the wireless connection box that can be bought for adding remotely located instruments. Looking at the manual drawings, it appears to be very similar to the "ISS" in the Vantage Pro2; same cable inputs, same sized box, same channel dip switches, maybe a slightly smaller solar array (I'd have to look at them (virtually) side by side. The only physical difference seems to be the slanted solar array in the base station; the remote box is a simple parallel sided box, any tilt would have to be done mechanically. The proper term for the remote box is probably "SIM". I think the drawing actually labels the IC card as "SIM". ???

Bottom line, I don't really know how it is connected to the Console (and, therefore, the software). I assumed (well, there's my problem!) that the remote simply 'talked' to the main station which then transmitted the data to the Console. OTOH, perhaps each sensor's data must be recognized by the Console and if only one source is received for each type sensor, the Console, from the same 'channel', it displays them. Or, it may be completely different and much more robust and logical than my musings!

Bottom line, I will need to make sure the remote sensor connects to the same 'page' on the Console. I sure hope Davis uses the K.I.S.S. principle!
[lol2]

This site has impressed me with its friendliness and helpfulness. Perhaps that's partially due to the enjoyment of helping "other forum members spend their money"?!
[cheer]
Title: Understanding the Davis setup. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 01, 2015, 10:09:46 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station design experts,


Bottom line, I don't really know how it is connected to the Console (and, therefore, the software).

Perhaps this diagram will help.  It is the old way I had my station setup:

(http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Canebas_hardware/Wireless_station_diagram.jpg)

The big idea is that you have a single radio transmitter (in Davis's terminology ISS) and every sensor has to have a wired connection to that transmitter.  Normally all the sensors are attached to the ISS (which stands for Integrated Sensor Suite,) except the Anemometer.  In the setup above, I have a long cable going from my temperature/humidity probe under the deck to my rain gauge (which you can see in the early picture I posted on this thread.

I have learned da' hard way!! [banghead] that one instrument must never have its cable extended: the temperature/humidity probe.  It took me almost 5 months to straighten out a failure related to my extension on the temperature/humidity probe.  According to Davis any other sensor can have its cable extended.

So unfortunately, you will need some way to run the anemometer cable from your roof to wherever you want to put the other sensors.  You might have to bury the cable underground to deal with da' pooch.  When I changed my configuration, I had to put some conduits along the side of the house to run my data cables since my station transmitter is now under the deck next to the temperature/humidity sensor.

The wireless part is between the station transmitter outside and the console inside the house.  If you have a location with sufficient sunlight, the outdoor transmitter will work fine.  It is possible even to run the station transmitter exclusively on batteries.  I have a Davis 6382 transmitter and temperature/humidity probe that runs only on 123 lithium batteries.  They need to be replaced once every 4 months or so.  In my example I have a second "receiver" in the form of a Davis Weather Envoy (6316) (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06316).  That allows me to keep the console in a central location for everyone in the house to see it.  The Weather Envoy then has the data-logger and USB connection that allows WeatherCat to get data from the station.  If you didn't realize it, you will also have to purchase WeatherLink for Mac (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06520).  The WeatherLink software is really lame, but you need to buy this in order to get the data logger and USB interface to connect your station to your computer.  Alternatively, you can buy a WeatherLinkIP data logger and Eithernet interface (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06555).  In that case you will be connecting your console to an Ethernet port on your home local area network.  That is another way to avoid having to have your console next to the Mac where you run WeatherCat.

Sorry if this is a bit overwhelming.  Davis started out making stations for industry, government and academia.  So there are lots of options and installation possibilities.  Definitely keep asking questions until you feel like you understand what you are trying to do.  The Davis Vantage Pro-2 is a great station, but it is a complicated setup as well.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Understanding the Davis setup. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: Blicj11 on March 01, 2015, 11:35:58 PM
Love the diagram Edouard!

If you didn't realize it, you will also have to purchase WeatherLink for Mac (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06520).  The WeatherLink software is really lame, but you need to buy this in order to get the data logger and USB interface to connect your station to your computer.  Alternatively, you can buy a WeatherLinkIP data logger and Eithernet interface (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06555).  In that case you will be connecting your console to an Ethernet port on your home local area network.  That is another way to avoid having to have your console next to the Mac where you run WeatherCat.

Here is nice comparison of USB vs IP data loggers: http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/A_comparison_of_the_Davis_USB_and_IP_data_loggers_for_the_Vantage-2/Vue_line_of_weather_stations

You have to buy Weatherlink either way to get a Davis data logger. You don't use it; they just make you buy it as it comes packaged with the data logger.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 02, 2015, 12:54:36 AM
First, Edouard, I most say you have a very unusual shaped house! It must be fun trying to hang pictures on those curved walls! :P

Here's another attempt to list Davis devices I think I'll need ( ? is retail price from Davis ): Extra stuff to move the anemometer to the roof:
The Alternate System Configuration pdf (Application Notes list (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/wx_product_docs.asp?pnum=06152)) seems to imply that remotely and wirelessly mounting the anemometer, temperature, and/or humidity sensors are an accepted method of installation. It also implies that an additional Transmitter Kit (#6332) might be needed for any sensor cannot be cable connected to a single Kit. <- (I have no idea what I was trying to say in that last sentence!! [banghead] )

I'm confused as to why any cabling is needed, at least for the sensors. Is it mainly a problem with the WeatherCat software? Does the data logger not combine the data from the various sensors? Note I have not even mentioned the channel settings on either the ISS in the Vantage Pro or the SIM Kit. [banghead]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 02, 2015, 07:07:58 AM
Well now hold on there, partner? Take a deep breath and repeat after me, "It's a lot simpler than it looks."  ;D

Extra stuff to move the anemometer to the roof:
Envoy (Part # 06316 $175 ?)
Anemometer/Sensor Transmitter Kit (Part # 06332 $150 ?)
Mast, tripod or wall-mounts


The console handles all at the receiving end. If you don't use a computer, you could stop there with just a Wireless (non-FAR) Advantage Pro2 and your extra stuff list above. The wireless transmitter kit for the Anemometer/Sensor will do the trick of getting it to the console. An Envoy is just a faceless console which can be used in conjunction with or in place of the console that's included with the 6182 package. To hook up to the computer, you need the WeatherLink pkg, because it's got the Davis data logger in it. That data logger is your USB connection to your Mac, if you're not going with the IP data logger. Then you must install a driver (http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/pages/usbtouartbridgevcpdrivers.aspx) so that your computer recognizes the connection, and that's pretty much it.

All the sensors available for the system are all pre-configured. All you have to do is get 'em and light 'em up.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 02, 2015, 05:03:01 PM
I've downloaded the manual for the Console, but have not read it thoroughly, yet. ;) Since I will be using a mini for running WeatherCat and probably nothing else, the only purpose of the envoy would be to locate the Console some place other than in the "computer" room. When we built the house 18+ years ago, we had two coax cable runs installed; only thinking about  TV and media, not computer networks! [headbash]

I did notice that the Mac version of the Davis software included the USB hardware. I assume (always dangerous, I know!) that the hardware (data logger) was to be placed in either the Console or the Envoy. Is that correct?

Since it would be difficult to place the Console in another room (without hole drilling), it sounds like the Envoy is an unnecessary expense. I am slowly figuring out, I hope, exactly what is needed through everyones comments! Thanks!!
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 02, 2015, 05:23:15 PM
I did notice that the Mac version of the Davis software included the USB hardware. I assume (always dangerous, I know!) that the hardware (data logger) was to be placed in either the Console or the Envoy. Is that correct?

Yes, you are correct. The data logger plugs into the back of the Vantage Pro2 console and is then connected via USB to your mini. If you employ the Envoy next to your computer (so that your console can be moved to a central location in the house), then the data logger plugs into the back of the Envoy. If you use the Envoy - Vantage Pro2 combination, the two consoles communicate with each other wirelessly.

A less expensive option is to just get the 6152 console and use the iOS client on either an iPhone or an iPad to see what's happening (assuming you already have one of those iOS devices - if you don't that is a more expensive route!).
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 02, 2015, 05:35:48 PM
Quote
A less expensive option is to just get the 6152 console and use the iOS client on either an iPhone or an iPad
Thanks for the idea. My wife and I both have iDevices and they are usually close by, even at home. I'll have to investigate those apps.

Also, the Console is part of the 6152 'kit', as far as I know. The expense of the Envoy is certainly not required, in my situation.

I just hope you and Bull don't get into trouble bucking the "we'll help you spend your money" pledge! :o Do we 'sign' that 'pledge' automatically or after so many posts or do I need to show a purchase receipt? :P
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 02, 2015, 05:37:30 PM
I just hope you and Bull don't get into trouble bucking the "we'll help you spend your money" pledge! :o

Herb doesn't need money. He gets a commission for selling batteries to Edouard.  :)
Title: A bit more info. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 02, 2015, 09:44:57 PM
Dear xairbusdriver, Herb, Blick, and WeatherCat station design consultants,

First, Edouard, I most say you have a very unusual shaped house! It must be fun trying to hang pictures on those curved walls! :P

Alright, alright! . . . . Touch?!! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/touche_sword_fight.gif)

    Extra stuff to move the anemometer to the roof:
  • Envoy (Part # 06316 (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06316) $175 ?)
  • Anemometer/Sensor Transmitter Kit (Part # 06332 (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06332) $150 ?)
  • Mast, tripod or wall-mounts

Gang correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can use the secondary transmitter for the anemometer if you want to have that data appear in WeatherCat or be uploaded to other services.  I think you have to find a way to connect the anemometer to your station transmitter that will be with the rain gauge.  That's why I was suggesting that you look into how you could run that cable from the roof-mounted anemometer all the way to the rest of your instruments on the wood mount you are planning.

There is another possibility for mounting the anemometer that avoids putting it on the roof.  You could put it at the top of a flag pole near where you want to put the rest of the instruments.  There are two Davis station installations in our neighborhood that are set up that way.  There is some advantage to it.  You avoid touching your roof at all and you can put the flag pole close to the rest of the instruments so that what cable that needs to be buried or protected is minimal.  I don't know how easy it is to lower the flag pole to maintain the anemometer though.  It may sound like an eye-sore, but it really isn't so bad.  If you like I could take a picture of the each installation so you would have an idea of what that looks like.

The only purpose of the envoy would be to locate the Console some place other than in the "computer" room.

You might try setting up the console in the computer room just to get everything working and get used to having this sort of data.  If it turns out to be desirable to have the console somewhere else, you can always buy the Weather Envoy later on and swap the data logger.  It is a quick and easy thing to do.  So this is an idea just to keep in the back of your head for the moment.

Thanks for the idea. My wife and I both have iDevices and they are usually close by, even at home. I'll have to investigate those apps.

The apps are very nice and work well.  However, you may nonetheless decide eventually to want to move the console into a location with easy access.  It is a convenience that most of us expect to have from a weather instrument.  You want to know what the temperature is outside you just look and the number is right there.  Until recently, we didn't have all these computers and to check the temperature - you looked at a thermometer!

Herb doesn't need money. He gets a commission for selling batteries to Edouard.  :)

Well da' dreaded ISS battery eatin' syndrome (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1434.0) appears to have been finally banished, but there was one more twist to the tale.  I had to put the original ISS transmitter board that came with my station 5 years ago back into the 6382 enclosure.  The new transmitter board was - still - shutting down during the early hours of the morning!! [banghead]  At least one fellow on the WXForum had a problem with Davis transmitter shutting down like that.  I wonder if I didn't damage the new board by connecting it to a temperature/humidity sensor with such a long cable extension.  Even after I eliminated that, it still wasn't working properly!  :o

I haven't had a problem in about a week, but - no fooling - I've had enough of this nonsense!!  >:(

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1][/list]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 02, 2015, 10:20:41 PM
Quote
You could put it at the top of a flag pole near where you want to put the rest of the instruments.
Hey, that would also enable me to have 39+ foot high anemometer! :o US Railroads are slowly moving to a new monitoring/control system that requires pretty tall radio antennae along the tracks. They look to be close to 40' high. They are built with a pivot point maybe 15' ADL so they can be unlocked and swiveled down to access the antenna. Of course, these things are probably using 6" diameter pipe on the bottom support and ? x 6 x 12 inch steel slabs to mount the pivot/hinge bolt. And they still may be rather unstable at the very top! But that might be modified and shortened for uses like ours. After all, there's already ~40' of cable for the anemometer that comes with the Vantage Pro2!

I do worry a bit about intentionally punching holes in my roof! [heavyrain] [lightning]

Quote
Until recently, we didn't have all these computers and to check the temperature
I just use the "Honey, do you mind going to get the morning paper?" And then I ask her what the temps were like. I can also find out if it's raining or very windy just by looking at her hair...
Title: Re: A bit more info. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: Steve on March 03, 2015, 01:54:37 AM
Gang correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can use the secondary transmitter for the anemometer if you want to have that data appear in WeatherCat or be uploaded to other services.  I think you have to find a way to connect the anemometer to your station transmitter that will be with the rain gauge.  That's why I was suggesting that you look into how you could run that cable from the roof-mounted anemometer all the way to the rest of your instruments on the wood mount you are planning.

Edouard,

The anemometer transmitter kit's signal, when received by the console, is used in lieu of the anemometer channel from the ISS. So WeatherCat and/or any other software or service digests the wind data as if it came from an anemometer wired to the ISS. That's what makes it so handy to mount remotely. My anemometer is on the ten foot mast on the tripod on my roof, and the anemometer transmitter is mounted down by the kitchen window, easily reached when any battery maintenance is needed.

Steve
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: LesCimes on March 03, 2015, 02:09:49 AM
I use the anemometer transmitter kit as well. Works like a charm. I put up a utility pole which I got free from the telephone company (Around here, they lay them out in their maintenance yard and are free for the taking, first come first served). I snatched the longest one I could find and then added a pipe extension to which I attached the anemometer. Comes out about 40 ft.

Note, Davis also sells a repeater kit which does not work with the anemometer. Must purchase the transmitter specially for the anemometer.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 03, 2015, 05:56:42 PM
Quote
they lay [the poles] out in their maintenance yard and are free for the taking
I guess that means they don't deliver/install! [lol] Last Spring I decided to buy some rubber mulch; getting tired of buying more shredded bark every year, not to mention hauling and 'installing'! Ordered a ~75 cu. ft. bag. Had to be delivered by truck. Truck arrives, bag has smashed the pallet it sat on to allow a forklift to move it, no forklift on truck. Bill of lading says the bag weighs ~1200 pounds!!! The driver, even though he looked like a NFL linesman, could barely budge the huge sack. He even called for backup and the two men still could not get it to the end of the trailer. It went back to the dock for high-level planning! When another truck finally returned, the sack was very near the door, we just cut open the sack and spilled/shoveled the mulch on the driveway! [biggrin] It was quite a show!! [cheer] By the time I need more mulch, I'll probably be too old to even drive the wheelbarrow!! :P If I do ever get that much again, I'll have it delivered to the Home Depot store and let them get it off the truck!! [rockon]

I do have a little 8' long trailer... that would leave about 32' of that pole hanging out the back... prolly have to put two red flags on that sucker! 8)
Title: Thanks for the correction! (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 03, 2015, 09:38:35 PM
Howdy Steve, LesCimes, xairbusdriver, and WeatherCat Davis fans,

Gang correct me if I'm wrong . . . .

The anemometer transmitter kit's signal, when received by the console, is used in lieu of the anemometer channel from the ISS. So WeatherCat and/or any other software or service digests the wind data as if it came from an anemometer wired to the ISS. That's what makes it so handy to mount remotely.

Okay, I really wasn't sure so that's why I asked for the "backup."  Thanks!  [tup]

Does anybody know if the anemometer is the only instrument that can be set up in this way?  I could have saved myself a ton of work if you could get the temperature/humidity data from a 6382 station to substitute for the ISS temperature/humidity probe.

Quote
You could put it at the top of a flag pole near where you want to put the rest of the instruments.
Hey, that would also enable me to have 39+ foot high anemometer!

Well, yes you could go that way, but that just might be goin' about it da' hard way!!   [banghead]

I was thinking more about the 10 foot or so flag poles that can be bought from any serious flag supplier.  I don't know if your house is a two story house or not.  If it is then you get better data from the roof obviously.

I do worry a bit about intentionally punching holes in my roof! [heavyrain] [lightning]

Actually, the way I put my anemometer might be interesting if you can find a spot on your house where the roof is flush with a wall.  Here is the photo from earlier in this thread:

(http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Canebas_hardware/Exterior_sensors.jpg)

If you look at the anemometer mast it is actually attached to an "L" shaped wooden bracket that is bolted to the wall.  Here is a close up of the bracket:

(http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Canebas_hardware/Anemometer_mast.jpg)

That's one way to get a mast above your roof without having to get on the roof at all.

Quote
Until recently, we didn't have all these computers and to check the temperature
I just use the "Honey, do you mind going to get the morning paper?" And then I ask her what the temps were like. I can also find out if it's raining or very windy just by looking at her hair...

 ;) . . . Hmm, why do I get the sinking feeling that selling this project to - SWMBO - is going to be a tougher proposition that it would first appear! . . .  [banghead]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S. Let me know if you want those photos of a Davis anemometer mounted on a flag pole.  It could be useful information when you finally confront . . . SWMBO (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/eek2.gif)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 03, 2015, 10:22:32 PM
We have what is called a story and a half. That sounds like one of the contest categories at the <Annual Liars Contest (http://www.storytellingcenter.net/events/national-storytelling-festival/)> in eastern Tennessee! [bounce]

I had thought about using the wall of couple of rooms that jut out of the back roof. That would lower the anemometer a good 8', however, putting it, even on a 10' mast, barely above the peak of the roof. I'd really like to get it out/above of the turbulent air coming over that peak. A taller/longer mast would work, but it would also need to be stronger/heavier. However, mounting the transmitter kit low on that wall is entirely doable and would negate having to 'walk' on that 12/12 pitched roof! :o
Title: Liars and transmission distances(Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 04, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station caregivers,

We have what is called a story and a half. That sounds like one of the contest categories at the <Annual Liars Contest (http://www.storytellingcenter.net/events/national-storytelling-festival/)> in eastern Tennessee! [bounce]

 ;) . . . . What!?!?! . . .   Ya' mean in eastern Tennessee they have managed to force people to lie no more than once a year!  Amazing!!!!  [lol2]

I had thought about using the wall of couple of rooms that jut out of the back roof. That would lower the anemometer a good 8', however, putting it, even on a 10' mast, barely above the peak of the roof. I'd really like to get it out/above of the turbulent air coming over that peak. A taller/longer mast would work, but it would also need to be stronger/heavier. However, mounting the transmitter kit low on that wall is entirely doable and would negate having to 'walk' on that 12/12 pitched roof! :o

Is this a multi-story house?  If so, then your best bet is indeed putting the actual anemometer mast at the highest point on the roof.  On a single story house, you can get some flag-poles or equivalent that will get high enough to be comparable to the highest point you would be likely to reach using a tripod on the roof.  The houses I was referring to in our neighborhood are indeed doing this.  I think pole approach makes for easier installation and maintenance.

I gave up on trying to collect decent wind data because we are in the wind shadow of a steep slope with lots of trees all around.  I would need at least a 100 foot mast to get above all that and I think the neighbors would consider that an eyesore!!   >:(

One other thing to keep in mind when setting up your station layout is the distances between the station transmitter and the various receivers.  I am continuing to have some trouble with my station and I just turned on the repeater feature of my console.  My Weather Envoy is now far away from the main station transmitter and I had some sensor errors last night.  The distance between the station transmitter and the Envoy is now close to 100 feet and this house is definitely not the most radio signal friendly structure in the world.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 04, 2015, 10:46:26 PM
Here is a closeup photo of the homemade bracket that I used to install a 3-meter pole so as to get the the anemometer above the highest point of my roof. You can read all about it here: http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1333.0
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 07, 2015, 04:23:52 PM
Quote
Is this a multi-story house?
It appears to be a single story from the front, with a very high peaked roof. However, there is a large "dog house" extension on the back of the roof for a couple of bedrooms overlooking the back yard. You can see the roof of that extension in the image in post #20, it's under the upper half of the "W" circle. (Is there a way, with the forum software, to link to a specific post?)

Unfortunately, with the house facing south, the remote anemometer kit will be on the north side of the roof. That makes access, without climbing onto the roof, very difficult if it is to remain in Sunlight for the majority of the year. OTOH, since the lit solar array doesn't have to be as solidly mounted as the anemometer, it might be possible to affix it to a movable boom that is accessible through one of the many windows on that "dog house". In other words, the location of the anemometer is pretty simple, mounting the kit is the main problem.
Title: Use batteries only? (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 07, 2015, 11:15:16 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station design consultants,

Unfortunately, with the house facing south, the remote anemometer kit will be on the north side of the roof. That makes access, without climbing onto the roof, very difficult if it is to remain in Sunlight for the majority of the year.
. . . . .
In other words, the location of the anemometer is pretty simple, mounting the kit is the main problem.

You might need to check up on this, but Davis equipment is supposed to be able to operate on battery power alone.  I thought Herb's and Steve's remote anemometer kits must be set up this way because both need to replace the battery every few months.  If the solar panel was working that shouldn't be necessary.

If there is no easy way to get the solar panel reaching sunlight then trying to use battery power alone is an option worth checking out.

Can anybody else can confirm my hunch?

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S. Another scheme would be to extend the anemometer cable far enough so that you could reach the ground and could mount the remote anemometer transmitter in a location that was easily accessible and still got some sunlight.  You would have to call Davis technical support to get exact figures, but I recall something like 120 feet cable lengths for the anemometer is still acceptable.  That's would give you many more options for where to put that transmitter.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 08, 2015, 01:06:34 AM
Edouard, you can get about 6 mos. out of the battery alone, as observed with the temperature transmitter, which doesn't have the solar cell. However, with the solar cell, that can be a couple of years. Since it is on the roof, the longer the better, as far as I'm concerned.  [tup]

Xair buddy, you get quite a bit of lead wire (50' ?) with that anemometer. You can mast the instrument on the apex of the roof, at a point where you have the best wind measurement, and mount the transmitter box in the nearest sun spot close to the ground. I think as long as it gets 4 or 5 hours of sunlight, it will serve its purpose. Think about how many cloudy days its got to make it through in the winter time. Just be sure to secure the wire real good so that it's not flapping around in the breeze.

 [tup]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 08, 2015, 05:34:50 AM
Edouard, you can get about 6 mos. out of the battery alone, as observed with the temperature transmitter, which doesn't have the solar cell. However, with the solar cell, that can be a couple of years. Since it is on the roof, the longer the better, as far as I'm concerned.

I concur. I accidentally ran my unit on battery by forgetting to plug the solar panel back into the ISS control board after I moved my anemometer last summer. I got not quite 6 months on battery alone. I have gone 7 years without changing the battery when my solar unit was plugged in.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 08, 2015, 10:22:25 PM
I learned, the hard, cold, and wet way, that I want the roof mounting and access much easier and safer! More importantly, I learned that we need some major water-proofing and siding repairs. About 6+ years ago, we noticed some water dripping from the master bedroom ceiling. Quickly I decided something was wrong!! [banghead] In the image below, you can see the "dog house" extension I referred to in post #43. At the left end of that extension is a wall that comes just short (12 inches vertically and horizontally) of the valley of two roofs and a downspout for its roof. When we get a strong wind from the north, along with lots of sleet, freezing rain, and a couple of inches of snow, plus some long periods of way below normal temps, that crowded and shaded area gets covered by an ice dam. Naturally, when the frozen stuff starts thawing it piles up behind that dam. Those conditions are rare, in these parts, but if the collection gets high enough the liquid can then follow the siding until it gets behind the under all the roofing layers and finds the bare wall and roof joint, and then ceiling of that bedroom.

I spent a good 45 minutes very gingerly crawling, sitting, scooting, shoveling, and moving slushy stuff sheets of ice from the valey and the wall/roof intersection. Lost my grasp on the shovel and it demonstrated what would happen to me if I wasn't careful. SWMBO was resting in the bed below me and said she would have immediately been out to help me, should I have been the one that slid off... I felt sooo reassured that I decided not to mention that my nice clean bluejeans had roofing grit and asphalt on the seat! She said she would have known I had fallen because there would be no more noise of my "ice breaking" activities.
[lol2]
I'm sure you 'yanks' have better designed roofs and methods of de-icing. The experience re-inforced my concerns about climbing up the roof, however. The image below shows where I plan on mounting the mast/pole for the anemometer, that hasn't changed. The anemometer kit will be mounted on the very gently sloped roof of the "dog house" where it can face southward. I will also modify an aluminum ladder to 'hook' over the peak of the single-story wing that has the three-car garage and laundry room (right side of the image). Getting to that ladder is easy with the extension ladder I already have.

Even though the roofs are steep (12/12 pitch) from that 'removable ladder' to the west wall of the 'dog house' is only a single step and I'll be jambed between the roof and the wall. Moving a few feet south in that juncture, I will be able to reach the anemometer kit to replace batteries, if needed. I can even move a few feet further (south) and get on the very gently sloped roof of the 'dog house' if I need to access the anemometer itself. The anemometer comes with 40 feet of cable, the distance is much less than that.

However, I would appreciate suggestions on securing that rather delicate cable to the run it makes over the composition shingles (about like 25 grit sand paper!). Obviously, I don't want the wind whipping it back and forth on that rough surface; it wouldn't do the shingles any good either having the grit removed! Perhaps a nice bead of roofing tar?

BTW, "A" marks the location with the least restricted precipitation area and least shadows year round. Again, this is the back of our house, the north side of that infamous 'south bound mule'. :D
[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 09, 2015, 02:18:35 AM
? I got not quite 6 months on battery alone. I have gone 7 years without changing the battery when my solar unit was plugged in.

Yeah, Blick, but you're closer to the sun than most people.  [roll]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 09, 2015, 05:41:55 AM
Why not just mount the anemometer atop the ridgeline of the roof where your removable ladder is attached? Looks like it would be a much shorter cable run.

Yeah, Blick, but you're closer to the sun than most people.

You're right Herb. I'm so close it has affected my judgement and caused my hair to fall out.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 09, 2015, 07:41:09 PM
Blick, is that what causes that? I might have to quit going up on the roof then!
 [coffee]
Title: Still looks like da' hard way! (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 09, 2015, 09:13:25 PM
Dear xairbusdriver, Blick, Herb, and WeatherCat station design consultants,

I learned, the hard, cold, and wet way, that I want the roof mounting and access much easier and safer!
. . . . .

So sorry to hear about your harrowing ordeal!  We are all learning about new climate extremes in our corners of the United States.

The anemometer kit will be mounted on the very gently sloped roof of the "dog house" where it can face southward. I will also modify an aluminum ladder to 'hook' over the peak of the single-story wing that has the three-car garage and laundry room (right side of the image). Getting to that ladder is easy with the extension ladder I already have.

Can you give us an idea of the distances involved?  It sure looks to me like you could easily run the anemometer transmitter to some point where you could service it on the ground and not have any ladder requirements at all for routine maintenance.  Extending any of the data cables is really very easy.  The Davis extension kits use scotchlok connectors which are a snap to use.  Here is a video on how to splice on You-Tube:

http://youtu.be/gHW6ilSzJVY (http://youtu.be/gHW6ilSzJVY)

You don't have even strip the wires, never mind solder.  So if that's the reason you are reluctant to put the anemometer transmitter in a more accessible location, put your mind at ease!

However, I would appreciate suggestions on securing that rather delicate cable to the run it makes over the composition shingles (about like 25 grit sand paper!).

In my latest station upgrade, I ran PVC conduit to run the anemometer, rain gauge, and solar radiation sensor data cable extensions from one side of the house to the other.  I'm not sure how to secure PVC pipe to your roof, but PVC pipe would certainly protect the cable and should be tough enough to last a long time.  I suppose you could take the risk of using conduit clamps that are intended to to secure PVC to a wall and screw them carefully into the shingles.  If you put a ton of silicone sealant into the holes before inserting the screws, that should prevent water for getting into the shingles.

Hope that's something to think about.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 09, 2015, 09:27:49 PM
Xair buddy, here's one promising method of securing that wire. (http://w5jgv.com/tie-downs/tie-downs.htm)

(http://w5jgv.com/tie-downs/2003_0531_190258AA.jpg)
(http://w5jgv.com/tie-downs/2003_0602_152413AA.jpg)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 09, 2015, 09:39:23 PM
Xair buddy, here's one promising method of securing that wire. (http://w5jgv.com/tie-downs/tie-downs.htm)

Herb, once again, you are a genius. I like the fact that this method does not require a roof penetration.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 09, 2015, 10:14:22 PM
I can't take the credit for this one, Blick. All I did was search for it.  [biggrin]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 10, 2015, 12:03:35 AM
 Wow, Bull, the quarter that comes with those clips will sure help pay for some nice extras!!! Wonder if that roofing goop comes in colors? I can probably get enough granular out of the gutters to sprinkle them on the goop before it sets up... Thanks for the idea! [tup] PVC sounds like a winner, also!

The included 40' cable will be way more than needed, so no cable splicing/finger slicing needed!

While I was complaining about accessing the mast/pole, i couldn't see the correct 'tree for the forest'! The gently sloped roof could be a good location, even easier to reach than the peaked part. It might get a little wind blocking/disturbance when the wind is from the ESE or more easterly, but my location choices are all affected by trees, houses, roofs, etc unless I get above 50 feet. And then I'd have no idea what the wind out the door might be! [banghead]

The 'removable ladder' is only used when there may be a need to actually get to the anemometer or the solar array. When not in use, it could be put under my wife's side of the bed... mostly, and the 'uprights/added legs' would stick up high enough to keep her from falling off the bed! Two birds with one stone!! [cheer] [rockon]

Thanks for the great ideas!!
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 15, 2015, 04:34:50 AM
Got a OK from SWMBO... sort of... she reeeely didn't like the idea of a miniature Eiffle Tower on the roof! I tried to sooth her fears by assuring her that there would not be an elevator nor lights on ours. ;D She's just not sure about the comments from the neighbors, and I have been on the HOA board recently. She reminded me that I have a Christmas gift that will cover ~70% of the costs. [tup]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 15, 2015, 05:21:06 AM
Good report. Good outcome. You'll love it.
Title: Photos to appease SWMBO(Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 15, 2015, 09:35:06 PM
Dear xairbusdriver, Blick, and WeatherCat station design consultants,

Got a OK from SWMBO... sort of... she reels didn't like the idea of a miniature Eiffle Tower on the roof!

If she is concerned, you might show her photos of other stations that are installed in that way.  For example here is Steve Morris's setup:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg8497#msg8497 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg8497#msg8497)

Here is Reinhard's setup:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg8522#msg8522 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg8522#msg8522)

Here is how Blick setup his station:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg11647#msg11647 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg11647#msg11647)

If SWMBO is still reluctant, you might reconsider your installation scheme and look again at something based on a flag-pole.  I went ahead a photographs the installation in our neighborhood:

(http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Davis%20station%20with%20flagpole%20anemometer.jpg)

Sorry the photo isn't that clear because I didn't want to disturb the folks with the station, but in a way it really makes the point - you can hardly spot the anemometer and there is nothing at all on the roof.  This installation is similar to Randall's:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg8585#msg8585 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.msg8585#msg8585)

Except that the pole is right up against the house so that there is a brace to stiffen the pole and unlike Randall's pole, this one is black anodized so that is much less conspicuous.  Anyway, a bit for food for thought.

She reminded me that I have a Christmas gift that will cover ~70% of the costs. [tup]

 ;) . . . . . . Don't be so sure!!  Don't forget the WeatherCat forum consulting fees . . . and yes we do bill at a hourly rate and round up to the nearest hour! . . .   [lol2]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 15, 2015, 11:13:58 PM
Great shot Edouard! I'll show her that! Here's one I just took to help her see (no pun intended, of course) how easily it could completely hidden from view!
[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
The biggest problem now is to train the bird to fly around every time she goes outside...[/center]

Actually, I have pretty much decided to mount the pole on the wall on the right-hand side of that upper story, "dog house" (just to the right of the bird's tail). From the street, only the pole and the anemometer will be visible. I think a 10 foot pole can still get the anemometer at least 6 feet above all the roof within ~7 feet and at least 4 feet above the highest peak to the SE. A 10 foot pole will have at least 2 feet in the double-Y wall mount brackets. <GNS Wireless.com (http://www.gnswireless.com/GNS1650_18_inch_wall_mount.htm)> or this more adjustable type from <ROHN (http://www.rohnnet.com/rohn-pole-wall-mount)>. I'd still use those 'patch kits/pads' under the lag bolts!

Question (May qualify as a dumb one!): Have any of you tried 'camouflaging' the pole; light blue/white/grey and maybe 'dull-coat', also
Title: anemometer mounting details (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 16, 2015, 09:36:14 PM
Howdy xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station design consultants,

Great shot Edouard! I'll show her that! Here's one I just took to help her see (no pun intended, of course) how easily it could completely hidden from view!

The biggest problem now is to train the bird to fly around every time she goes outside...

 ;) . . . . I dunno' but I think y'all are goin' about it . . . . da' hard way!  . . . [banghead]

Actually, I have pretty much decided to mount the pole on the wall on the right-hand side of that upper story, "dog house" (just to the right of the bird's tail). From the street, only the pole and the anemometer will be visible. I think a 10 foot pole can still get the anemometer at least 6 feet above all the roof within ~7 feet and at least 4 feet above the highest peak to the SE.

That's exactly what I did.  I bought a 10 foot section of 1 inch galvanized steel pipe and then secured to a wooden bracket using "U" bolts.  Looking at your latest photo that is probably about the best data you are likely to get unless you want something monumental enough to get over the canopy of the nearby trees.

Question (May qualify as a dumb one!): Have any of you tried 'camouflaging' the pole; light blue/white/grey and maybe 'dull-coat', also

I wrapped my pole in bicycle tire inner-tube believe it or not to provide a cushion between the pipe and the wood bracket.  I didn't cover it the whole way, but that does definitely give it a flat invisible look on the section that was treated that way.  I double-checked the photos of that anemometer on the flag-pole and I was wrong about the assumption of a dark anodized coating.  Instead they painted the pole the same color as the house - dark brown.  That might not be a bad strategy for you.  At least if the pole is the same color as the house it will look like it belongs there instead of sticking out like the section of visible galvanized pipe at the top of my anemometer bracket.

If it would help, I could take pictures of my bracket to give you at least one approach to consider.

When you start thinking about actually spending money, definitely ask us about the dealers with the best prices.  Otherwise, you'll end up spending too much!

Glad things seem to be progressing!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 17, 2015, 09:14:36 PM
OK, spent a few hours comparing pricing, only on the interweb!! [tup]

Used five sites: RainmanWeather, Provantage, Scaled Instruments, Scientific Sales, WeatherShack, and Davis. That list indicates lowest to highest prices for the 6152 (wireless, non-FAR), 6332 Anemometer kit, WeatherLink S/W for Mac, plus lowest cost shipping (if any). Prices ranged from 652.48 to 995.00. The highest without including Davis was 871.85 (with "free" shipping!).

Until I joined here, Provantage is the only place I knew about. I've read good things about tech support from  Scaled Instruments and (I think) Scientific Sales in various threads. Really small price differences among the four lowest 'bidders': RainmanWeather, 652.48; Provantage, 669.25; Scaled Instruments, 671.30; Scientific Sales, 681.10. Scientific Sales claims to have a "Low Price Guarantee" but I don't see any actual link for an explanation. They also have a "Norton Shoppers Guarantee" which limits lower prices in 30 days and only at their own site ::), and "Norton" did more damage to Macs, in the past, with their "protection" software than most hackers/SPAMmers. In other words, I avoid "Norton" at all costs! ::)

Opinions on these dealers? Any problems with any of them?

Thanks!
Title: Great service from Scaled Instruments (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 17, 2015, 10:20:26 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat bargain hunters,

Opinions on these dealers? Any problems with any of them?

I've been struggling with that "mellar-drama" in the other thread and ended up buying a lot of stuff from Scaled Instruments.  Ryan Wilhour, who owns and runs Scaled Instruments, has really stood behind me since I made my first purchase.  He also gave me some really helpful disassembly instructions so that I could pull off all the changes I made.  There would have to be a really big discount for me to not go back to Scaled Instruments.  The customer service from Scaled Instruments just can't be beat.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 18, 2015, 12:08:38 AM
I purchased from Rainman because they had the lowest prices and I was pleased with their service. I've never had to send anything back. I get all my tech support from Davis (excluding this forum). I put a lot of stock in Edouard's opinion (unless it has to do with buying bulk batteries from Herb).
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 18, 2015, 04:08:43 AM
I haven't bought anything in awhile, so any anecdotal advice I might offer is probably stale. However, if you ever need some batteries?

One source you may have overlooked is eBay, if you have the patience to wade through all the auctions. I have, on occasion, found good deals going down on the VP2. However, it was a while ago. Hang on? Let me check. ? ? ? ? Yep! Here's one! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Davis-6152-WIRELESS-Vantage-Pro2-Weather-Station-Passive-Solar-Radiation-Shield-/141355747223?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e9758797)

Oops! Almost forgot the batteries! (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002IGW15G/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=16546BA45FW2L&coliid=I13IPOMHZF9C6D&psc=1) You're going to need at least one in about 6 months to 3 years, depending on weather and sunshine availability. ? Unless you're a tinkerer, like Edouard, then you might use them all in one week.  [banghead]

 [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 18, 2015, 02:53:22 PM
Being the paranoid type, I tend to avoid eBay, although my wife has had several good purchases from that source. For anything over $25, I want a public name and address. [lol] Three of the dealers actually have lower prices on the 6152 hardware and have good reviews here, also. I'm probably too hard on some folks trying to make a living with eBay, but that's my problem. [banghead]

Quote
You're going to need at least one in about 6 months to 3 years
I also look askance at predictions that are too detailed! The more precise, the less I trust them... that's one reason I usually turn off the TV "weathermen"! Besides, I've read some where about someone named "Herb" that gives away batteries? I think he may be in cahoots with the guy that sells some kind of highly educated feline (possibly a 'robotic' breed) that communicates with a Mac (probably via the mouse port) about the weather. We already have a cat, so I doubt we could use that feature...
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: LesCimes on March 18, 2015, 09:08:50 PM
You might take a look at Ambient Weather as well. Think that was where I ended up buying my VP2 some years ago. I haven't purchased anything from them since then. But I do include them in my price comparisons.

Concerning service, I always call Davis Instruments about problems. I've never tried to call the business from where I bought my equipment. However, it sounds like some of the businesses have been helpful, e.g. Elagache comments about Scaled Instruments.
Title: The eBay dilemma. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 18, 2015, 10:30:14 PM
Dear Herb, xairbusdriver, Michael, and WeatherCat bargain hunters,

Being the paranoid type, I tend to avoid eBay, although my wife has had several good purchases from that source. For anything over $25, I want a public name and address. [lol] Three of the dealers actually have lower prices on the 6152 hardware and have good reviews here, also. I'm probably too hard on some folks trying to make a living with eBay, but that's my problem. [banghead]

I still prefer to buy things somewhere else than eBay if possible, but I have to admit there really good bargains and lots of things you can't get anywhere else.  My HO logging railroad has taken advantage of eBay and especially for parts for my assertive trusty wagon. (http://www.canebas.org/Automotive/V8_Buick/Misc/Biquette_V8_Buick_signature.gif)

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=392.0 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=392.0)

Even so I usually will go elsewhere for mainstream items.  The only exception is if I've had a good experience with a seller on eBay in the past.

If you can afford to pay a little more, I think you would be more comfortable with a more conventional business like Scaled Instruments.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 18, 2015, 10:59:48 PM
OK, another source! Although the Ambient Weather prices are not competitive (total cost is second highest, not counting Davis, of course!), there is a blurb that I haven't seen at the other sites. Apparently Davis made some "improvements" last year? Here's what the AW site mentions:
Quote
Our inventory has the improved rain cone design introduced in 2014. The changes include grip grooves, bird spikes, a new debris screen and the Davis logo
Not sure about the other stuff, but I'd sure like to have that Davis "logo"! [cheer] :P

In the meantime, I think I might steal some ROHN engineering wall mounting designs. I'll use U-bolts instead of their strap steel, however. Angle iron is easy to find, Home Depot has 14 gauge available, as well all the other pieces. I also realized that I can mount the Anemometer Kit on the same pole since it is more accessible mounted on this wall. ;D I'll still need to devise/build/buy some method of mounting the solar panel at an angle. It does not have the angle that comes with the 6152 unit; it's actually perpendicular to the horizon! The Sun, even at the Poles, is much higher that that! I'm ~ 35N... should be ~45 angle to the pole, I think.
[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
Quote
...HO logging railroad...
OH NO!!! Another Model Railroading "nut"! When we built this house ~19 years ago, I had a small room designated as "The Layout Room"! Unfortunately, every time a flew a trip, SWMBO added some kind of box to the stash in there. Eventually, I got her to agree to relocate them... then our two Grand-Daughters and their Mother moved in with us (not to mention the Grand-Dog!). [cheer] "My" room became their Den. Oh well, I still have a subscription to Trains, looking at Model Railroader just made me frustrated! I gave most of my tools and models to a good friend, kept the stuff that belonged to the JLC & E. :D Now I concentrate on my small fish pond (no expensive Koi, just colorful Shebunkins) and planning the weather station! :P
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Randall75 on March 19, 2015, 12:45:46 AM
Hi xairbusdriver
 You just need to shop around
I check with all top sellers and for my self I got the best deal at Scientific Sales but they all run specials so when you have the money saved up just go to each site and see who will give you the best deal




cheers
 [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 19, 2015, 01:14:55 AM
I agree, there's a summary of the prices I got at six different sites. Will probably order Saturday, after I verify the sites are supplying the 2014 hardware. If it is older, not-improved stuff, that may explain the price differences. Don't want to pay this years prices for last years model, even if the changes aren't significant. :) Gotta save some money for those batteries! ;)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 19, 2015, 04:20:39 AM
Sounds like you are getting close.

Yes, make sure your Davis is the most recent model with the anti-bird nesting spikes on the collector cup. They came out with that design a couple of months after I bought my most recent unit last year. Fortunately, there are enough trees around that the birds here aren't interested in the rain cup.

Sharp of you to pick up on the greatest improvement to Davis hardware in a decade - the addition of their logo on the collector cup. Who wouldn't pay extra for that?

Davis, Amazon and Ambient will always be the highest prices. Your other sources will always be relatively close to each other and are probably your best bet for saving enough to buy a 5-year supply of 3.0 volt batteries with something left over for the Mrs.

Let us know what you end up ordering and from which vendor. Have fun.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 19, 2015, 07:34:34 AM
Sounds like you just about got it figured out, so I'll offer just one small piece of sage advice. When you go to set the anemometer, make sure you take a compass or have a fairly precise location for true north.

Just trying to save you another trip up and down that ladder.

Best,

 [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 19, 2015, 02:42:02 PM
Quote
make sure you take a compass or have a fairly precise location for true north
Good point! But in my hundreds of hours of planning, thinking, researching, over-thinking, and planning, I came up with a way for my buddies still flying to help me out. I'll ask one of them to schedule his arrival back in Memphis at a time I'll be on the roof. Then, I'll have him fly several racetracks with north/south legs directly over my house. Simple, no problems with compass deflections caused by the metal pole or the steel plates in my brain head! [banghead] Of course, there is also the moss-on-the-north-side-of-a-tree method... or is it the south side... sounds like another search at DuckDuckGo! [cheer]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 19, 2015, 09:37:28 PM
After all the valuable help from you "guys", I decided purchase of a Davis Vantage Pro2 (6152 w/the Mac software) and the Anemometer Kit from <RainmanWeather (https://www.rainmanweather.com/site/)>. I contacted them (Mr. Ingham) this morning to confirm they had the new version with the Davis logo, of course. [cheer] His quick, positive response means he is either not very busy or highly customer oriented! ;D I'll hope for the latter. ;) I placed the order about 3:05pm. I just got confirmation that he's already had UPS come pick it up at 4:08pm (at least they've started tracking it)! I even realized they sold the 'patch kits' that add a layer of water-proofing to wall/roof mounting and ordered that only minutes after my main order. They saw my note and combined the two orders and deducted the extra shipping created by my not getting my act together after only 30 days of planning! [banghead] [cheer] I may need to visit Home Depot earlier than I planned! [tup]
Title: Trains until wagon. (Was: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 19, 2015, 11:47:18 PM
Dear xairbusdriver, Blick, Herb, and WeatherCat station design consultants,

After all the valuable help from you "guys", I decided purchase of a Davis Vantage Pro2 (6152 w/the Mac software) and the Anemometer Kit from <RainmanWeather (https://www.rainmanweather.com/site/)>.

Rainman Weather seems to be a nice outfit as well.  When all this started I thought it was my Weather Envoy that was broken and ordered a replacement from them because they had a sale on the Envoy at the time.  When it turned not to be the problem I was able to return it and got a full refund.

Quote
...HO logging railroad...
OH NO!!! Another Model Railroading "nut"!

I got a bit further than you did on the model railroad.  This is the image I used for a Christmas card in 2010:

(http://www.canebas.org/misc/Christmas_card_image_2010.jpg)

Alas, my trusty wagon was whacked by one of those German sports sedans the day before Thanksgiving 2011.  The car has had problems ever since and is now waiting for a custom engine to be repaired so it really works as intended.  With all the care-giving that my wagon required (and now-a-days my weather station) the railroad is just sitting around gathering dust.

Best of luck in getting your station up and running!  [tup]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 20, 2015, 12:13:34 AM
Quote
Best of luck in getting your station up and running!
Wait! What?! Don't you guys come and help?! I thought that was the whole point of this forum thing and the maps and ...  [rainyluck]

I think that engine on the right is a... DOH! It's printed right under the fireman's window! [banghead] Can't see the driver arrangement on the other one. Or is that on the interchange line back to civilization?! Are you modeling 2 or 3 foot gauge?
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 20, 2015, 10:15:07 PM
Congrats on your order and best of luck with the install. If you can drive an Airbus you ought to be able to install a weather station in your back garden.
Title: consulting fees and logging railroad (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 20, 2015, 10:50:03 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station design consultants,

Quote
Best of luck in getting your station up and running!
Wait! What?! Don't you guys come and help?! I thought that was the whole point of this forum thing and the maps and ...  [rainyluck]

 ;) . . . Not only that, but the invoice with all our consulting fees is in the mail! . . . . [lol2]

I think that engine on the right is a... DOH! It's printed right under the fireman's window! [banghead] Can't see the driver arrangement on the other one.

This is an all geared steam locomotive logging railroad.  So indeed the locomotive on the right is an example of the class-C Climax locomotive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climax_locomotive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climax_locomotive)

The locomotive under the water tank is a class-B (two truck) Heisler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisler_locomotive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisler_locomotive)

The railroad is loosely based on the Pickering Lumber Company's operations along the Tuolumne river near Yosemite in California.  However, after doing a lot of research on the Pickering Lumber company I realized that: 1.) it involved far more scratch-building that I felt up to and 2.) Logging before World War II was awful rotten work.  My real reason for modeling the Pickering Lumber Company is that a number of their locomotives has been preserved by the Pacific Locomotive Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Locomotive_Association), so I got to see them in operation and basically fell in love with them. When the original scheme looked impossible,  I completely changed my model railroad plan from an actual logging camp to a tourist railroad.  That also allowed me to take more liberties with what I had on the layout.  For example I have a complete set of logging camp cars, but they are based on some Weyerhaeuser cars instead of Pickering.  A tourist railroad and museum could do things like that.  It also allows me to add some additional motive power.  Pickering never owned a class-C Climax, but a tourist line could add the factory demonstrator to the roster.

Or is that on the interchange line back to civilization?! Are you modeling 2 or 3 foot gauge?

Actually Pickering was one of the few logging railroad that ran standard gauge.  That's one of the reasons their logging locomotives survived.  They could be moved and stored on any standard rail line.  Because it is a tourist line, the layout of the track is a bit whimsical.  For example the design calls for 2 water towers when the total track isn't more than a few miles.  But once more a tourist railroads are like that.  By the way the water tower is kit-bashed into a design the Pickering lumber company actually used.  They had the unique practice of putting a square roof on their water towers.  I personally like the appearance.  Water tower #2 is on the do-to list.

Hope that got your juices going to once again take on model trains . . . . after you weather station is run and running!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S. There is one more oddity to this model railroad layout.  It is another long story, but it also serves as the stand for an artificial Christmas tree which you can see in the background of the photo.  So it literally is the Christmas tree model train layout for the season!
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 22, 2015, 08:58:57 PM
My station should arrive tomorrow (Monday) according to the tracking info: Memphis, TN, United States,03/21/2015,5:52 A.M., Arrival Scan Will be picking up a post and a "spike" to hold it up. I saw an image from Steve using this kind of device in the "Weather station installation examples, reply #2 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.0)". My soil is extremely soggy right now, so driving the spike should be easy. I just hope I can avoid hitting it with the riding mower! If the 30" spike proves too unstable, I can always 'plant' a post in some concrete.
[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
There are models available for square posts and/or round metal posts from <this company (http://www.ozcobp.com/oz-post.html)>, also. Hope it's not too easy to be true!
Title: How tall a post? (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 22, 2015, 10:28:31 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station design consultants

My station should arrive tomorrow (Monday) according to the tracking info: Memphis, TN, United States,03/21/2015,5:52 A.M., Arrival Scan Will be picking up a post and a "spike" to hold it up. I saw an image from Steve using this kind of device in the "Weather station installation examples, reply #2 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=969.0)".

Exactly how tall of a post did you have in mind?  We have this sort of a setup for our mailbox and for that it works fine.  Still, my instincts are that for a weather station it might be more prudent to go with a more permanent solution from the start.  There is only one thing worse than not getting your station online quickly enough: it is losing data when things go wrong!  :(

My soil is extremely soggy right now, so driving the spike should be easy. I just hope I can avoid hitting it with the riding mower!  If the 30" spike proves too unstable, I can always 'plant' a post in some concrete.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/xAirbusDriver/spike_zps8sl59iza.jpg)
There are models available for square posts and/or round metal posts from <this company (http://www.ozcobp.com/oz-post.html)>, also. Hope it's not too easy to be true!

Getting a lot of rain is normal for your neck of the woods I would think.  That's another reason to be a bit concerned of this technique unless you want to keep your instruments very low.  That could be fine, I never looked into that sort of arrangement for the sensors, so I don't know what are the issues.  However, I would expect getting the rain gauge a little higher might reduce some of the debris that would get into it, and putting the rain gauge at a height so that you can easily do all servicing from a standing position would be easier on your back!

Anyway, just a little more food for thought.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S. You could have your cake and eat it too.  Use one of those spikes to get your station up and running temporarily and then at your convenience put in a second post in concrete at what would become your permanent location.  It would cost you the price of an extra post and the spike, but odds are you'll find some other use for it eventually . . . . at least if you are a packrat like me! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/packrat-emoticon.png)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 22, 2015, 11:54:40 PM
Thanks for the advice, I have considered the alternatives. I almost decided to just drive a galvanized pipe into the ground. If this arrangement doesn't pan out, I'll just ask SWMBO to hold the station in her arms while the concrete sets up... [tup] I'm sure she'll be most happy to oblige! :P [cheer]

Getting a six foot post tomorrow. I doubt I'll cut any of it off as I'm already taller than that. The water is mainly on the surface around here because of the deep layers of clay keep it from getting deeper. All that clay is why so many houses/buildings in the area have brick exteriors; it's cheap, plentiful, and a real pain in the neck to dig up. Also great for creating places to get farm equipment stuck. Just ask my Father-in-Law! He's 96 and has AD, but he'll start laughing if you ask him how many things I got stuck in the mud when I worked for him one Summer! [lol]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 23, 2015, 05:01:23 AM
If you have ever worked on a farm and you have never gotten anything stuck, you're not very good at farming.

I concur with Edouardo. My ISS is mounted where I have to get on a ladder for annual maintenance and it's not ideal. If I had to do it over again I would move it closer to the ground. That said, I am NOT moving it. The mount is stable, the thing works and I don't fix stuff that isn't broken.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Felix on March 23, 2015, 10:17:23 AM
Thanks for the advice, I have considered the alternatives. I almost decided to just drive a galvanized pipe into the ground. If this arrangement doesn't pan out, I'll just ask SWMBO to hold the station in her arms while the concrete sets up...

Yea, I still mix up Sakrete ready mix concrete in my wheelbarrow and scoop in the holes wet, tamping every six inches or so. But I see many homeowners in my area just tamp in dry Sakrete and wait for it to absorb ground moisture and set up. Apparently works OK although I question whether it would ever reach it's rated strength using that sort of a shortcut. Probably sufficient for mailboxes and pole lights and such but I wouldn't have trusted the method for my anemometer pole which goes down over five feet (10% of the pole length + 2 feet; minimum 30 inches to ensure the pole is set below the area's 50-year frost depth). The formula is what the electrical linemen in my area use and I figure if it'll hold an electrical line, it'll hold a ground-mounted anemometer.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 23, 2015, 02:04:09 PM
I'll have the anemometer on a 10' pole attached to a side wall near the roof top, it should be at least 4' higher than any nearby peaks. That will probably be done late, after I know the system is working properly. It will be mounted separately mainly because all the back yard is surrounded by trees, fences, and house. All that structure  really blocks the wind, no matter what direction it might be coming from. We'll see if this 'spike' thing enough support. At 6', I should be able to check for debris in the new design rain collector, also; battery changing should be a breeze... and hopefully rare!

I also found a small "5 - 7W solar panel" mounting bracket that should handle the Anemometer Kit. It holds the panel/kit at a 45? angle. It may not arrive until the end of the month, however. Of course, changing those batteries will require a climb onto the roof! I may see if my young wife might enjoy a different perspective of the neighborhood... [lol]

Gotta go... picking up the mounting stuff at Lowe's and Home Depot in anticipation of the station delivery today. Also need to pay for a WeatherCat license! I'm hoping I can wait a few days before having to contact Herb for replacement batteries! :o :P

Quote
[If] you have never gotten anything stuck, you're not very good at farming
I've also heard that there are only two kinds of farmers; lucky ones and good ones. Sometimes it's better to be lucky! My Father-in-Law must have been both! He used his back pay for his time as a POW in WWII to pay for the land he bought. I don't think he ever bought anything on credit his entire life! That plan served him well! It's great to not have any kind of financial debts, but few can withstand the relentless marketing industry! (He said after buying his latest 'toy'!) :-[ ::)
Title: Matter of taste. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 23, 2015, 09:08:40 PM
Dear xairbusdriver, Blick, Felix, and WeatherCat station design consultants,

Thanks for the advice, I have considered the alternatives.

. . . .

Getting a six foot post tomorrow. I doubt I'll cut any of it off as I'm already taller than that. The water is mainly on the surface around here because of the deep layers of clay keep it from getting deeper.

You definitely know your home and soil conditions better than we can so by all means follow the path that seems reasonable to you.  I suppose part of my motivations is a matter of taste.  A weather station is something that should be really rigidly and permanently secured so it can stand the test of time.  When I put up my station I built brackets that I thought were relatively beefy, but ultimately weren't as strong as I imagined.  When I had to move the station transmitter this February, I took advantage of that to reduce the weight on one bracket.  Now the station is at robust as I first intended it to be.

So as you say, do as you see fit, but keep in mind this station should last as long as you stay in your house.  So as you put your station together aim for something that could remain in place for decades.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 24, 2015, 08:08:23 PM
OK! It's set up (temporarily) as far away as I can put in the back yard. Reception if fine. Preparing to install the ~7' post and mount the station on it. Right now the anemometer is just bolted to the station, and I'll mount it on the post, also. Waiting for the solar panel bracket to arrive.

First "owner" question: Is there any reason to even leave the WeatherLink app on the HD? Still have the CD and can compress it to a .zip file, also.

Haven't done anything with WeatherCat except start it up... and discovering it uses Java (I've always deleted all traces of Java in the last few years; too many security problems. However, I started WC just before eating lunch. Now, over an hour later, it's still "Testing... This can take a few minutes." I did quit the Davis s/w, does it have to be running while WC "Tests"? :o
Title: Congratulations! (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 24, 2015, 09:30:21 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station consultants,

OK! It's set up (temporarily) as far away as I can put in the back yard. Reception if fine. Preparing to install the ~7' post and mount the station on it. Right now the anemometer is just bolted to the station, and I'll mount it on the post, also. Waiting for the solar panel bracket to arrive.

Congratulations on getting it delivered and getting everything up and running at least for testing.  [tup]

First "owner" question: Is there any reason to even leave the WeatherLink app on the HD? Still have the CD and can compress it to a .zip file, also.

Well, odds are you'll never use WeatherLink given that your setup is simple, but disk space is cheap.  I suggest you copy it onto your hard drive and just let it sit.  There are still a few station adjustments that WeatherLink can do but WeatherCat cannot do.  So until WeatherCat get that additional capability (its on the do-to list,) it is prudent to have WeatherLink available.

Haven't done anything with WeatherCat except start it up... and discovering it uses Java (I've always deleted all traces of Java in the last few years; too many security problems. However, I started WC just before eating lunch. Now, over an hour later, it's still "Testing... This can take a few minutes." I did quit the Davis s/w, does it have to be running while WC "Tests"? :o

Something it wrong here.  WeatherLink is a Java application.  WeatherCat is a native Mac application.  WeatherCat doesn't do any testing. 

Which version of WeatherCat did you want to run?  You might consider running the release candidate of WeatherCat 2.1 which you can download from here:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1615.0;topicseen (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1615.0;topicseen)

WeatherCat 2.1 is a signficant upgrade from WeatherCat 2.0 and it has been in beta long enough that the release candidate is very stable.

However, you do need a driver if you have the USB version of the data logger (I don't recall which version of the data logger you went with.)  If it is the USB version, you'll need the Silicon Labs driver that you can download from here:

https://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/USBtoUARTBridgeVCPDrivers.aspx (https://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/USBtoUARTBridgeVCPDrivers.aspx)

If you have any problems we have an extensive collection of troubleshooting tips for the Davis stations on the WeatherCat Wiki:

http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Davis (http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Davis)

Indeed you might want to cruise around the Wiki as it has a lot of useful information:

http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Main_Page (http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Main_Page)

I hope that you get pass any WeatherLink "issuez" and get WeatherCat up and running.  That's when things really get interesting and fun!  [bounce]

Cheers, Edouard
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 25, 2015, 12:13:41 AM
Quote
Something it wrong here.
Yes, and I think it is the lack of something between my ears! :-[

Quote
WeatherLink is a Java application.
Most likely.

Quote
WeatherCat is a native Mac application.
Agreed.

Quote
WeatherCat doesn't do any testing.
Actually it can and especially when first run. At least the version I downloaded (2.0.2 Build 30) can and did. If you look at page 21 of the WC User Manual, you'll see the window that had the "Testing... This may take a few minutes." message. Of course, the image in the manual does not show the "Testing..." text, see below* for more on how to get that window after the first run of WC.

After I finished outside, I woke up the mini to find it still spinning that 'pizza'. I Force Quit WC (which was shown as not responding). I started it again and it didn't even open a window, and it reported the same crash log as before.

I finally checked (command-tab) and saw that WeatherLink was, in fact, still running! I Quit it and re-started WC without any problem. [cheer] It has been running fine for the last hour. ;D

Since you still have the User Manual open, look back at the next to last paragraph on page 20.
Quote
Finally, make sure you have quit any other weather software...
"Well, there's your problem!" :P Nothing wrong with WC, it was simply the Davis app interfering with communications with the Console. It may also have blocked access to any files it was creating (Permissions). The problem was not reading the manual! [banghead]

As for "testing" I can only assume that the initial 'test' was to the Console. It did not begin until I selected the new USB driver from that "Comms Port" dropdown menu. You can also get a 'comms' 'test/check' using the Tools->Station Hardware Options menu item. It will test the Transmitter Battery Status and the Console Voltage. This will be done automatically just by using that menu. There is a "Test Power System" button that "will take a while" as it runs in the background.

*Finally, the Tools->Configure Stations Comms... menu brings up the window seen on page 21. You are warned that WC will Quit and delete the current Comms info. This time, however, it did not show any "Testing..." message.  ;)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 25, 2015, 02:50:19 AM
To quote Coach Z from Homestar Runner, "Good jerb!"

Free Advice (and worth every penny)

1. Glad you are up and running. You will not need WeatherLink unless you like software that looks like it was kludged from an early version of DOS.

2. Take Edouard's suggestion and read through the Wiki; it has some helpful stuff.

3. Tell your wife how much money you have saved just by listening to all your new friends on the forum.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 25, 2015, 03:11:53 AM
Thanks, coach! :)

You can always spot a ported app, they always use "Ok" instead of "OK". I also noticed a lack of GUI skills with the multi-step set up process; they all used "Yes" instead of "Continue". They also seemed to want a separate window for all 15+ settings; screen design is a lost art in many older Windows apps. ::)

I'll look at the Wiki some more. I'm sure there is more info than in the ISS user manual which I've manged to lose! Even UN-made the beds thinking it got under the covers!! At least I'd already downloaded the PDF. It did have some info that I had not thought about. "Don't mount the rain gauge in a sprinkler pattern!" DOH! :o That reminded me to leave the 8' post as long as possible, I'll need a short step ladder to change the batteries. No problem.

I think my wife is surprised at how small the anemometer is, but she's still glad it won't be on the very top of the house! [cheer]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 25, 2015, 08:36:59 PM
I guess I'm going to have to install some C-cells in the Console to get rid of the "Low Console Batteries" message. The batteries are there for power even if the power goes off. ::)

For anyone doing a first install, remove the battery from the station after initial testing, at least while you are mounting it. You may not have it in the Sun during that time, yet it will still be transmitting, if the battery is installed. DOH!
Title: My bad and rogue data . . . (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 25, 2015, 08:59:57 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat fans,

Quote
WeatherCat doesn't do any testing.
Actually it can and especially when first run.

Well, this is - so - embarrassing!  :-[

Yup, my bad.  I didn't know that WeatherCat does some testing on a new installation.  I have been using WeatherCat (and its evolutionary descendent LWC) for all of the 5 years my station has been up.  So I'm a bit out of loop when it comes to what happens when you put up a new station!

I stand corrected!!

For anyone doing a first install, remove the battery from the station after initial testing, at least while you are mounting it. You may not have it in the Sun during that time, yet it will still be transmitting, if the battery is installed. DOH!

The better thing to do is just let the station transmit but not run WeatherCat.  When everything is in its proper location, you can then clear the data logger before starting WeatherCat.  That way any rogue data is eliminated before you start your station in its permanent configuration.  This is a case where you need WeatherLink, you can use it to clear the data logger so WeatherCat doesn't find any data to download.

The other thing you can do is simply edit the data that WeatherCat has collected.  WeatherCat uses text files to store the data.  So if you have some weird data you want to eliminate, just ask and we can tell you how to remove it from the WeatherCat data.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 25, 2015, 09:51:54 PM
Quote
The better thing to do is just let the station transmit but not run WeatherCat.
Actually, the reason I made that statement is that WC and the Console is already indicating the battery is below full charge. It could be because much of the installation time the station was not properly aligned or even in view of the Sun, so it had to use the battery. Of course, who knows how old that battery might be? Looks like I need to start paying Herb? BTW, I actually didn't start WC until after the mounting was completed. :)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 26, 2015, 04:17:43 AM
Of course, who knows how old that battery might be? Looks like I need to start paying Herb?

One of the things I have learned to do from the guys on the forum is to always test the battery before you put it in. That way you know what its strength is when you start. This saves you from trying to figure out why the battery is discharging so fast.

With regards to the testing WC does when you open the Station Hardware Options tool, the Console Voltage should read 4.5 v or higher. When it dips below 4.5 v those console batteries need to be replaced.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 26, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Quote
the Console Voltage should read 4.5 v or higher. When it dips below 4.5 v those console batteries need to be replaced.
That assumes there are actually batteries in there! :P I kinda figured that out! ;D We're forecast for possible thunder storms this afternoon/nite. That almost always increases the possibility of electrical outages, so I'll be butting some batteries in the Console. Not too concerned about the low battery condition in the station, need to have some spares located locally or online, anyway. I'll have two batteries on standby since the anemometer kit uses one, also. How fast can Herb deliver them? I'm assuming he hand-delivers them to our house?  :P 8) I'd better send him my address as my Profile map is not exactly accurate... [goofy]

Later, the Console is now happy with some friendly C-cells.  [cheer]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 26, 2015, 08:29:28 PM
Just like a kid in a candy store...

I had noted elsewhere that I was not able to get WC to connect with Email. "Trixology Support" worked with me through several emails and we finally got things connected. Now I just checked Mail and found a message telling me that my station has recorded a new Low Temperature Record! Won't be needing much of a coat, however. The new "low" is 46.5?F. Gimme a break! The station hasn't even been running for much more than 48 hours!! Now, I'll have to see what other messages it might be sending...

Today, Email! Tomorrow, the Moon! [woohoo]

Couldn't have done it without all the help from you weather cats! Especially the "Trixology Support" guy! [tup]
Title: That's our fearless leader! (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 26, 2015, 10:26:48 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat fans,

Couldn't have done it without all the help from you weather cats!

Well, according to Blick, it is actually Weather Catters . . . . although this isn't without some controversy.  [biggrin]

Especially the "Trixology Support" guy! [tup]

Most likely that "Trixology Support" guy was none other than our fearless leader: Stu!  Actually Stuart Ball, the developer of WeatherCat software.  When he isn't working his fingers down to the bone coding new goodies for WeatherCat, he does enjoy heading into the wilderness of Scotland, Wales and England.  He does this with his Land Rover of a few years back and his "caravan" (travel trailer to those of us in the USofA.)  He is even known to be quite a connoisseur of Guinness!

So, when you see a posting by WCDev (Stu's forum handle,) know you'll who you are dealing with!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 26, 2015, 10:37:06 PM
I thought that's who "Trixology Support" is/was. Unless he has a "day job", it's often difficult to live off programming! Since he didn't use his name in the emails, I didn't want to assume too much; I've got into trouble with that behavior all too often! Besides,  "Trixology Support" sounds much more business like! ;D

I frequent another forum, even help as an Admin, but we don't often use real names in the public forms, unless the 'owner' starts doing it. Too many 'lurkers' on the interweb and all! I didn't even place the 'pin' at my exact location on the Profile map! [blush] Of course, Google knows where we all live!
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 27, 2015, 09:12:18 PM
I mentioned earlier that the ISS battery was reported as "Low" the very first time I started the Console. Got several emails today via WC about the ISS battery:Just changed the battery. Batteries + claims they get "fresh" ones every week. Didn't notice till getting home, but the date on the "fresh" one is exactly the same as what Davis sent; Duracell-Mar 2024. All that proves is that they were probably made last year (2014). ::)

Voltages from the station:I interpret the empty battery tray value to be the voltage of the super capacitor.

I interpret the solar array to be functioning correctly, I think I measured the same 2.04v on the battery contacts, even with the solar array still connected. The 0.24 difference (solar output - super cap) may be an indication of the load on the station, although I don't know if it happened to be transmitting at the exact moment I was testing. BTW, the red LED is yellow in my station.

Console still reports "low battery" in station. WC Hardware Options screen still shows a red segment for the ISS, the same as before changing the battery.

Lastly, is there info from Davis as to what minimum voltage is needed to run the transmitter? Perhaps even Stu knows, as WC is reporting the battery as "bad". I've looked at the WC reports and don't see one that logs the actual/reported battery voltage. The Hardware Options Battery Status has 8 segments, the extreme right one is labeled "ISS", the others simply "2" through "8". I have no idea what those numbered segments represent. At first I though it might be the 8 ID channels, but I think that is a simple coincidence, and there are only 7 segments to the left of the "ISS" segment, anyway.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 27, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
Just got an Admin Alert @14:44:49 saying the "Station voltage is now good - actual value is 4.549 Volts." I can only assume this is because the Sun came out for a time? This is also about the time I 'played' with the station, removing/replacing the battery, disconnecting the solar array, etc. This follows a report just a few seconds earlier that "Station voltage is low - actual value is 4.199 Volts." I'm guessing these are values from the solar array since all measurements at the battery contacts (with or without the batter present) were 2.04 volts.

While I appreciate these notices, I'm not sure what the normal values are supposed to be. They are obviously very much higher than what the battery can supply. Seems a waste to not use rechargeable batteries and use some of that Sun energy to keep them topped off. OTOH, some batteries don't like being charged constantly, and rechargeables are usually very expensive.
Title: Sounds like my nightmare. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 27, 2015, 10:07:33 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat Davis station caregivers, . . . .

I mentioned earlier that the ISS battery was reported as "Low" the very first time I started the Console. Got several emails today via WC about the ISS battery:

Bummer dude, . . .  Your station definitely shouldn't be behaving like that.  It does remind me of the problems I've been having with my station, although the symptoms are significantly different.  I've never gotten low battery warnings, the station just appears to shut down.

Lastly, is there info from Davis as to what minimum voltage is needed to run the transmitter?

You might call Davis Tech Support on this one, but I can tell you that when the battery in my second 6382 temperature station gets into the 2.9 volt range it starts complaining.  Given your tests, you might be able to figure it out.  Turn on the dip-switch that causes the station to flash when it transmits, remove the battery and solar sensor and allow the station to discharge until it stops flashing.  If you measure the voltage until then, that would give you an idea.  It might be a long time though if your super-capacitor has gotten charged up.

I've looked at the WC reports and don't see one that logs the actual/reported battery voltage. The Hardware Options Battery Status has 8 segments, the extreme right one is labeled "ISS", the others simply "2" through "8". I have no idea what those numbered segments represent. At first I though it might be the 8 ID channels, but I think that is a simple coincidence, and there are only 7 segments to the left of the "ISS" segment, anyway.

I don't think Davis sends the voltage of the battery from the transmitter to the console, so it isn't available for WeatherCat to read.  You were correct the first time, the "LEDs" on the WeatherCat display are the station ID's from 1 to 8.  Since most people don't fuss with multiple IDs, Stu left the first one as ISS.  However, since I have been fussing with station IDs I've seen different ones turn red depending on which ID I have my second 6382 temperature station set to.

Keep an eye on this one, you may have a defective station and may have to return it.

Sorry about this . . . .

Edouard
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 27, 2015, 11:02:24 PM
Quote
Keep an eye on this one, you may have a defective station and may have to return it.
Guess I'd better retrieve that shipping box... ::) We'll see what happens tonight/this weekend, I'm sure no one's at work in Hayward or FL, now. Well, FL, anyway. Besides, the "new" battery may actually be better than the original; perhaps Batteries+ stores theirs in a cooler warehouse than Davis/Rainman does. We keep ours in the frig. ;D
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 28, 2015, 02:56:55 AM
Status: I pulled the 'new' battery and disconnected the solar array (just in case the Moon is really bright!) and turned dip 4 ON at 8:45 pm CDT. The battery contacts read 1.88. Down to 1.74 after an hour of LED blinking (looks green after dark, BTW). Of course, WC and Console are warning of the "low" battery... since it's not installed. Chickens are already roosting, but I may get another reading before I turn in. [sleep] I expect the capacitor to be fully discharged by breakfast. [coffee]

Later... Got one more around 10:45. 1.62[computer]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: WCDev on March 28, 2015, 10:10:47 AM
The voltage refers to the console voltage - all the transmitters only have good or bad status. If the console voltage is varying with new batteries in there then there's a problem with the console and/or it's mains supply. The voltage should be 4.5V or better with new batteries. At ~4.2v the console will no longer be able to communicate with the computer.

Note that for transmitter batteries, the console will only update the status shortly after midnight, so if you fit a new battery at 15:00, it won't clear the bad status until midnight.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 28, 2015, 04:22:13 PM
Thanks, Stu! That status update timing is good to know. I assume (as dangerous as that always is!) that this is a 'feature' of the transmitter hardware; it only updates the battery info at the end/start of a day and there is no direct way to interrogate it from WC (or anything else). WC actually only interrogates the Console (or whatever has a data logger), if I understand the basics. All communication between the ISS and the Console (and, therefore, WC) is one-way: ISS OUT, Console (WC or other data loggers) IN.

There was never any problem with the Console batteries, the "low battery" warning was simply because I had not  installed any batteries in it for the first few days. In some compute "brains" zero volts is the same as 'low' voltage. [lol] As long as I'm assuming, I think that warning will update much sooner than the ISS battery one. Likewise, WC can determine the Console battery voltage in 'real time' with Station Hardware Options tool "Test Power System" button.

Details, details, detail... esoterica that most of us don't need to know and can't do anything with if we did! [banghead] [lol2] Just a habit of my career... always asking "Why? How? When?".

Thanks, again for the info and your fine software! [cheer]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 28, 2015, 04:36:27 PM
Station capacitor drained as much as possible, meter reads only in hundredths of a volt, so I have only "0.00" showing. Will install only the battery in a few minutes and see if it starts transmitting. As Stu mentioned (reply #104) the ISS won't actually report the battery as good until around midnight. I will be watching the Console, however, to see that it changes from a "L" (lost comms) to an flashing "X" which would indicate transmissions being received. Of course, sensor data would also confirm that.

Assuming the ISS is working, hopefully in a matter of minutes, I'll reinstall the solar array and press on.

Thanks for all the new info and help! :)
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 28, 2015, 04:54:46 PM
"Who let this idiot in?!" [banghead] "Where are the forum police when you need them!?"  [runoff]
Maybe we need an IQ test before new members can post!! [rolleyes2]

I'm positive Stu will agree that you can't make things idiot-proof! What could be simpler than inserting a single batter into a single holder? Apparently, it is not simple enough for me! While I had my "reasons", I managed to initially install the ISS battery BACKWARDS! WHAT?! This discovery may explain a lot of my problems in other areas. :thinking:

Everything is working fine now. BTW, the battery showed 3.10 volts right after I reinstalled it... the other way, still with the drained capacitor. I gotta go plug in the solar array... I just hope I can find my way back into the house. Maybe I should leave some bread crumbs...  [banghead]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on March 28, 2015, 05:07:11 PM
So, are you going to end up with a spare door, albeit slightly altered from perfect? I was thinking  [cat] a little artfully applied RTV and she'll be as good as new; a spare.

Bet you already thought of that.

 [lol2]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 28, 2015, 05:27:40 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they expect me to return the 'plain' door and, more importantly, the solar panel. I seem to remember words to that effect... wonder if that call was recorded... [goofy] That's the valuable piece, of course. I'd have to make yet another trip out to the station to be sure, but I don't think it is a duplicate for that one. It may have the same output, but it has different physical dimensions... OK, OK, I'll go compare them! Are you happy now? :P

Well, it actually is the same dimensions! But in the ISS, there is no frame on the array. On the Kit, the array has its own frame which is then glued (RTV, no doubt) to the box.

The Kit also has the cable zip-tied to the box to relieve any strain on the connector should the door somehow try to leave "the room"! [lol] I think there is a place in the ISS box for that kind of set up, but it is not used. I discovered that simply removing the lid/door on the ISS could easily disconnect the cable! Might be a good 'mod' to make.

Of course, I could also claim that I can't return the array with the old door because I would "damage" that zip-tie!  ::) OTOH, I can't install the new door and array and leave the old array in the box! I'm thinking they might figure that out, also. [lol2] Besides, with my lack of technical skills (installed battery backwards! Really?  :o ), I'd probably set something on fire with that extra array! [runoff] [banghead]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on March 28, 2015, 05:54:54 PM
Everyone of us has experienced a moment of glory such as yours. At least you figured it out. Eventually. And no one has to know. Oh wait, you didn't post that did you?  :)

Congratulations. You are now an official Weather Catter.
Title: 0.5 Volts station still transmits (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
Post by: elagache on March 28, 2015, 11:41:31 PM
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat Davis know-it-alls . . . .

I have an answer to your question in your post yesterday.

Lastly, is there info from Davis as to what minimum voltage is needed to run the transmitter?

I took the battery out of the old transmitter board while I was doing my transmitter board swap and just left it going with the LED flashing.  I was stunned to measure only about 0.75 Volts between the empty battery connectors and the board was still going.  Somewhere under 0.5 Volt my console no longer saw a device on transmitter ID #4 (where it had been.)  Nonetheless, it doesn't take much power to keep these stations up and running.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S. That makes the "battery eatin' syndrome" that much more mysterious . . .
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on March 28, 2015, 11:56:29 PM
A very long time ago, in a far away house.... I had a book titled something like "The TTL Cookbook". It was mainly a list of the 'new' integrated circuits beginning to be available to hobbiests. They generally used 5volts and much higher averages than what we have today. I built a (kitchen) timer for my wife, which she never used! Probably her best decision, the thing had a power supply that could have made a good arc welder!! It's simply amazing how little energy current transistors use now. There are even whole computers no bigger than half a pack of cigarettes! That timer I built was about as big as a half gallon milk carton!!
[lol2]

It's no surprise these transmitters can work with such a meager voltage! [rockon]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on April 11, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
Here's a glimpse of my "Station-on-a-Stick". I understand some are concerned about the amount of support the 30+ inches of metal spike in the ground. I'll post here if it proves unstable for any reason.[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
None of the wooden post is below ground level. The (twin bolt) bracket on the top of the 'spike' also has no solid base under the post, just an "X" formed by the two pieces of pointed metal that form the 'spike'. This should prevent water damage to the pressure treated post, even from a small flood! Actually, if water is standing in this location, we probably won't be home since the floor would have a couple of inches of water on it! [banghead]

Also note the artistic placement of the post to allow the beauty of the knots show at their best. :P It's the subtle  details like that which makes my projects so attractive to my wife and neighbors! [lol]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on April 12, 2015, 04:13:33 AM
Thanks for sharing the photo. You installation has my OSOA (Official Seal of Approval).

I did learn from CoCoRaHS that you should technically bevel the top of your post, away from the rain collector cup, to minimise the chance of rain bouncing off the top of the post and into your cup, thereby oversampling the amount of rainfall. But you appear to have solved that by mounting your cup high enough above the top of the post to avoid splatter.

Don't Panic and Carry On.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Bull Winkus on April 12, 2015, 07:03:09 AM
Quote
But you appear to have solved that by mounting your cup high enough above the top of the post to avoid splatter.

I don't know, Blick? Have you ever got up and gone to the loo in your bare legs. It can bounce pretty high!

 [bounce]
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Felix on April 12, 2015, 07:16:22 AM
Thanks for sharing the photo. You installation has my OSOA (Official Seal of Approval).

I did learn from CoCoRaHS that you should technically bevel the top of your post, away from the rain collector cup, to minimise the chance of rain bouncing off the top of the post and into your cup, thereby oversampling the amount of rainfall. But you appear to have solved that by mounting your cup high enough above the top of the post to avoid splatter.

Don't Panic and Carry On.

I've historically found that my CoCoRaHS sight gauge usually reads a couple hundredths more than my Davis Station records. I've always figured the Davis instrument loses the first hundredth waiting for the tipping bucket to fill the first time and if the rain stops just before the bucket tips for the last time, it under-records by another hundredth.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: Blicj11 on April 12, 2015, 07:39:52 AM
Herb: Ha ha ha!

Felix: I agree. My CoCoRaHS gauge and my Davis gauge are always very close and sometimes, exactly equal each other, but if I had to choose, I'd say the manual gauge is slightly more accurate.

There have been some amazing advances in the technology involved in measuring weather data, but for measuring snow, the science remains mostly where it has been for hundreds of years: poke a stick in the snow and measure the stick.
Title: Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
Post by: xairbusdriver on April 12, 2015, 03:16:20 PM
I did think about that angled top, but wanted to put a plastic cap on in to help keep the top dry. I can probably still do that with some careful balancing on my step ladder. Frankly, I didn't consider the splashing problem, thanks for the tip!

The hard part, for me, will be remembering to slant the cut away from the rain collector! The way I do things, I may not know if I did it correctly for a few days... I could always re-mount the ISS on another side, but then the solar panel would not be facing the Sun...  :o maybe I can just mount an umbrella over the whole thing, that should prevent the splattering...  ???

Quote
for measuring snow, the science remains mostly where it has been for hundreds of years: poke a stick in the snow and measure the stick.
I believe there is one more very important step in that process; be sure not to poke the stick on your foot! That's extremely important down south where I live, since we seldom wear shoes... Frankly, if it's cold enough to snow around here, we just measure the stick while we're inside; no use getting cold while doing that outside. Besides, the stick is almost always the same length, either way. Only difference I've seen is that it gets wet if you poke it in the snow...  [snow] [banghead]