Trixology
Weather => Weather Hardware/Measurement => Topic started by: elagache on September 05, 2014, 10:10:34 PM
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Dear WeatherCat Davis fans,
Every now and then we get a someone wanting to upgrade to a Davis station and needing some information about the options. I just added some information on the Wiki about the Davis data logger, but honestly I don't really know what are all the trade-offs associated with going with the USB data logger versus the IP data logger.
We now have enough users of both systems that we should be able to come up with a few key points that someone upgrading should keep in mind. So what do you folks think? What are the trade-offs a new Davis user should keep in mind? I'll take the conclusions of this thread and add it to the wiki for safe keeping.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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I'm hooked up through USB. Once the driver is installed, there's nothing to it. It appears that the advantage might be direct control of your data feed, without the additional dependency of your Internet connection being up. I've got WeatherCat trained to create a backup to a separate volume once a day. The Time Machine software backs up the original volume to its separate volume once a day. Perhaps the only way I'm likely to lose my date is if the house burned down. If that happens, I've got more important fish to fry. It might just depend on how reliable the ISP is.
I'm wondering if switching might be a huge problem with archived data. With WeatherLinkIP?, archival is in the cloud. With WeatherLinkUSB, it's local.
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I've still got a serial connection between the VP2 and my Mac Mini. I've considered moving to USB or IP but couldn't find a good reason to do so. ;D
Some minor benefits; data archived in the cloud (like Herb said... in case the house burns down) but I'm backing up to iCloud already.
Being able to have the Console away from the Mac Mini is nice, but then the console needs an ethernet port.
The info displayed on the Weatherlink Network is basic. If it included NOAA reports I may have considered it. But this is coming too in WC so all in all: I'm sticking to what I've got.
Jos
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I use the WeatherLinkIP? data logger for three reasons.
- I do not want to have the console next to my iMac. I need the console to be more centrally located in the house.
- It saves me from using a USB port, which are in high demand. I am already using every USB port on my iMac plus all the ports in a USB hub.
- It does not require a driver and once you have the IP address set, you never mess with it again.
The main advantage of the IP data logger is that it allows you to put your console anywhere you have an ethernet port to access your network.
The IP logger has two primary disadvantages:
- It is more expensive.
- It requires an ethernet port.
Note that although the IP logger requires access to an ethernet port, that port does not have to be directly in the router. It can be anywhere. My house has wired ethernet ports in several locations and this worked out perfectly for me. I am currently investigating a suggestion from Herb to see if I can use the port in an Airport Express as the access point to my router for the IP data logger. I will report on that when I get it figured out.
The only other advantage of using the IP data logger is that it allows you to automatically upload weather data to the Davis weatherlink.com network, even if your computer is turned off. However, according to our fearless leader, Stu, you shouldn't use that feature, thereby negating its value:
"For the greatest reliability it is suggested you turn off the upload to weatherlink.com via the loggers' configuration web page and turn the upload option off in WeatherCat. The reason for this is when uploading to weatherlink.com, the logger may lock-up if it can't resolve the weatherlink.com domain name and communications to WeatherCat will be lost." (WeatherCat Manual, p.61)
I do not consider the loss of this feature to be of any significance as the WeatherLink Network contains only minimal data and has a very feature-poor display, reminding me of the good old days when everything for Windows for Work Groups was ported from DOS.
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Dear Herb, Jos, Blick, and WeatherCat Davis owners,
Thanks gang! [tup] That's a fairly nice set of points put all together. The only thing that could be added is the Weather Envoy as another way to separate your console from the computer. Although it doesn't make much sense unless you do not have any way to get Ethernet where you want to place your console, since the combo of USB data logger and Weather Envoy is an even larger expense.
Any other thoughts?
I'll get up a wiki page on this eventually.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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? Any other thoughts? ?
Just this about the Weather Envoy. I was told, many moons ago, that the inside temperature, humidity and pressure sensors were duplicated in the Weather Envoy and that using the Envoy in conjunction with the ISS bypasses the console, so that where ever one puts the console in the house, its temperature, humidity and pressure sensors are local indication only. As I understand it, (please correct me if I'm wrong) if one is using the Envoy, one does not have to use the console. It becomes just another ISS receiver, out of the loop as far as WeatherCat and the computer are concerned.
Also note that a Davis remote wireless temperature/humidity sensor is lower resolution than the sensors in the console, with 1 resolution rather than the 0.1 resolution of the console's sensors.
With that in mind, it seems that, for inside readings, the only way to get 0.1 resolution at locations away from the computer is to go with WeatherLinkIP? in the VP2 console and an Ethernet or WiFi connection.
Waiting with baited breath for Blick's report on use of the Airport Express to implement this feature. I see no reason why it wouldn't work, but knowing and guessing are two different things.
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Howdy Herb and WeatherCat Davis owners,
Just this about the Weather Envoy. I was told, many moons ago, that the inside temperature, humidity and pressure sensors were duplicated in the Weather Envoy and that using the Envoy in conjunction with the ISS bypasses the console, so that where ever one puts the console in the house, its temperature, humidity and pressure sensors are local indication only. As I understand it,
Yes, that's exactly correct. Unfortunately, the Davis station isn't particularly well-designed to support monitoring multiple interior and exterior temperature locations. After all, Davis first went after the academic and professional market, so that isn't a big surprise.
Also note that a Davis remote wireless temperature/humidity sensor is lower resolution than the sensors in the console, with 1 resolution rather than the 0.1 resolution of the console's sensors.
Also correct. This seems a little cheap. Hard to understand why academics and professionals wouldn't have wanted the same resolution for any sensor they might require in a weather monitoring scheme. Doesn't seem to hurt their sales much though.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Waiting with baited breath for Blick's report on use of the Airport Express to implement this feature. I see no reason why it wouldn't work, but knowing and guessing are two different things.
Here is my report, in proper chronological order.
- Before I tried anything myself, I called Davis tech support, which was a waste of time. The agent told me that it would not work because the WeatherLinkIP? "must be plugged in directly to the router." I told him that he was was not correct as I had my IP data logger plugged in to a wired ethernet port on my network and I had no problems for the past two years. I told him it only needed ethernet access. He was unable to think about anything that was outside of his script so I gave up on him.
- Next, I called Apple tech support and told them I had a weather station that required ethernet access to my network. I asked him if the Apple Express would allow me to use its ethernet port for that purpose. He said the Apple Express will definitely provide a wired access point to the network. I have a 1st generation Express and a 2nd generation Time Capsule that are both in Extend the Network mode and he told me either one of them would work. The only Apple hardware requirement is that the Airport Express needs to be close enough to the wireless router, to have a good connecting signal to the network.
- I unplugged my Apple Express and moved it next to where my console is located. I plugged it in and waited for the light to turn green. I then unplugged the ethernet cable connected to my IP data logger from the wall port and plugged it into the Airport Express ethernet port.
- It worked like a charm! I checked the WeatherCat Log and the console was uploading data without a hitch.
So this provides one additional method of connecting your console. If you want your Davis console to be located somewhere away from your computer, so that you can see the console display in a more convenient location, you can use the WeatherLinkIP? data logger with an Airport Express plugged in to any convenient electrical outlet in your house.
Credits for this discovery:
- JT asked about data loggers in another thread, which is brilliant.
- Edouard suggested the data logger topic, which is brilliant.
- Herb came up with the Airport Express idea, which is brilliant.
- JosBaz and Steve posted clear thoughts about data loggers, which is brilliant.
- Apple provided the technology, which is brilliant.
- Stu is the brains behind WeatherCat, which is brilliant.
- Davis Tech Support inspired me to try it by telling me it was impossible.
Great example of the WeatherCat forum in action.
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Why that's EXCELLENT ? work, which is brilliant!
Thanks Blick! You are true blue, and handsome too!
[woohoo]
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The wall plug design Airport Express has been discontinued and replaced with a table top model having the same shape as the AppleTV?.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwQ39f8xBsnyD-MBxYgaXCmZCIgqS4zrCp4vnto6Ke8neT-dvPpplgfpSXhyPKtSccGZ235D-R&usqp=CAE)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjz3a_W0rgWpXKHrnl7Sk31JDhmyDDvdl0ReRNjkxcmjD6TJzmtwIG18hUcwoajec_MAygbMZV&usqp=CAE)
However, there are solutions available to wall mount the newer version.
The Totalmount (http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=CWv7llZYOVOPJCqHAyQGX8IGwCvGztc4F2bbRvMcBmdP9z8cCCAkQAiDezc8eKA9Q0JfN4f______AWDJpr-GwKOwE8gBB6oEJk_Q3VuzAHN7pxeekqJG6OJw9caVTKqzvqyBArjwPw0Fp0Q8ueEcwAUFoAYmgAfbgI4ViAcBkAcCqAemvhvgEqWbu6XC6NujKg&sig=AOD64_3AwCLQqt2IGYhkzeS3GZIw0xkaZg&adurl=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-117182-37290-0/2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D53601919689_324272%26itemid%3D321292497902%26targetid%3D87946127769%26rpc%3D0.16%26rpc_upld_id%3D35149%26device%3Dc%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252Flike%252F321292497902%253Flpid%253D82%26adtype%3Dpla&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ei=lZYOVNbVBsmTyATYzIIg&ved=0CLUBEKcrMAU) - Mounting kit for AirPort Express Mounts AirPort Express to walls - underneath desks - to the back of TVs - and to the back of computer montitors Declutters the room.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKapliIsjUxZIC2zSgwWvjX9Mgw0ezrji6NJCNSHrVBDiq6c7CEHha2dCoUxmfTjjzRXbTLt1z&usqp=CAE)
AirLock: Wall/Ceiling Mount for Apple AirPort Express (http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=CXhDelZYOVOPJCqHAyQGX8IGwCubL_qkF7uSJiMQBqOC7jkQICRADIN7Nzx4oD1CzgvOOBWDJpr-GwKOwE8gBB6oEJE_QvXiGAHN7p1-eDbKDF4zQLYCbvLvTcIVE_s3NOHk-6YN3eMAFBaAGJoAHnonMLogHAZAHAqgHpr4b4BLArbD5nprMw5sB&sig=AOD64_3E5uUYmpjPvkUMszL7FjwFfJ9WVQ&adurl=http://giros-2.myshopify.com/products/airlock-wall-ceiling-mount-for-apple-airport-express%3Futm_source%3Dgooglepla%26utm_medium%3Dcpc&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ei=lZYOVNbVBsmTyATYzIIg&ved=0CMIBEKcrMAY)
The AirLock securely mounts your Apple AirPort Express on the wall or ceiling to extend wireless coverage and range using solid PC/ABS construction and Torx head security.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcVMtxVlZqRIlLuA9o4KdHwn9Mc-YmpF8i8FidQpQWM2AdLrHXvM_ryK847N09QVrhjUyuv11z&usqp=CAE)
One can still find the older wall plug model available (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/2757150175287071088?q=airport+express&newwindow=1&safe=off&biw=1967&bih=1222&sqi=2&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.74649129,d.b2U,pv.xjs.s.en_US.ZIOukfQmgko.O&tch=1&ech=1&psi=fZYOVO3WIOGV8QHJpICYDA.1410242176029.3&ei=lZYOVNbVBsmTyATYzIIg&ved=0CHoQpiswAQ) as used equipment, and in some instances new equipment. Note that if you purchase used, the IEEE 802.11g will handle the light load of the VP2 console, and is easy to find at ~ $40 US. The later models with IEEE 802.11n are much faster and pricier, but aren't really necessary in a dedicated application. In fact, if your existing network is dual band g+n and the rest of your gear is using n, then it will actually help your network speed to get the g only Airport Express, as it will keep the VP2 data stream off of your busy n channel.
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Hi Blick, Herb, and WeatherCat tinkerers,
- I unplugged my Apple Express and moved it next to where my console is located. I plugged it in and waited for the light to turn green. I then unplugged the ethernet cable connected to my IP data logger from the wall port and plugged it into the Airport Express ethernet port.
- It worked like a charm! I checked the WeatherCat Log and the console was uploading data without a hitch.
Very interesting discoveries here!! [tup]
I would have expected that you can jump between Wi-Fi and wired Ethernet connections without any problems, but it is good to hear that the experiment was a success!
Before I tried anything myself, I called Davis tech support, which was a waste of time. The agent told me that it would not work because the WeatherLinkIP? "must be plugged in directly to the router."
That is unfortunate. Alas, I suppose their techs are focused on the weather station hardware and don't have much experience with home networks.
Thanks Herb for all the information on the Apple Wi-Fi products. I just checked and there are a number of other tricks you can use to get Ethernet devices on to your home network. Here is a nice CNET article about the options:
http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-get-your-ethernet-only-gadgets-on-your-home-network/ (http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-get-your-ethernet-only-gadgets-on-your-home-network/)
I'll get around to writing up all this interesting stuff on the Wiki, but I'm a little overloaded at the moment. (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/juggle.gif)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Hi Blick, Herb, Edouard and fellow members,
A big thank you to the fantastic response to Edouard's thread on the pro's & con's of USB/ IP software. I am so convinced now to go for the more expensive IP software and get the Airport Express unit and with it the flexibility that Blick has proved so well!
Well done Herb for coming up with this idea in the first place!
Finally to Steve on my original thread said it is easy spending someone else's money - so true; however with such examples it has helped me realise there can be more potential for a 'newbie' like me to get a great system that delivers accurately and is so expandable!
Thanks guys, much appreciated!!!
I get married this Saturday (Saturday 13th Sept) and honeymoon in Paris the following week. On my return I will order my Pro2 system/ software/logger - I will let you know what I finally decided to run with!!
Cheers!
JT
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I get married this Saturday (Saturday 13th Sept) and honeymoon in Paris the following week. On my return I will order my Pro2 system/ software/logger - I will let you know what I finally decided to run with!!
Congratulations on your priorities,mate. Marriage first, weather second.
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Congratulations on your upcoming nuptuals!
Steve
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Dear JT and WeatherCat managers of domestic relationships . . . . . . . (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/scratch_head.gif)
I get married this Saturday (Saturday 13th Sept) and honeymoon in Paris the following week.
. . . . .
On my return I will order my Pro2 system/ software/logger - I will let you know what I finally decided to run with!!
;) . . . . Hmm, well that does thicken the plot considerably . . . . We are more than happy to help you spend your money on weather gear . . . . However, convincing your wife-to-be that such investments are truly a good idea . . . . . . that is strictly YOUR problem!!! . . . . [lol2]
Seriously, congratulations on the happy occasion and hope even the weather gods smile on your honeymoon! [sun2]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Congratulations JT! May all of your decisions lead to happiness and prosperity!
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Cheers gentlemen!
Catch up on my return! I am sure my wife will be very understanding.......?? Paris tomorrow - happy days!
Best regards,
JT
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Dear WeatherCat Davis equipment experts,
Okay, I did what I promised and put up the Wiki page comparing the USB and IP data loggers and also comparing the USB+Envoy setup to the IP data logger. The page is here:
http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/A_comparison_of_the_Davis_USB_and_IP_data_loggers_for_the_Vantage-2/Vue_line_of_weather_stations (http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/A_comparison_of_the_Davis_USB_and_IP_data_loggers_for_the_Vantage-2/Vue_line_of_weather_stations)
and it is linked to the Davis hardware page:
http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Davis (http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Davis)
Any comments, corrections, questions would be most welcome! (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/scholarly_teacher.gif)
Also, if you spot any typos, feel free to get yourself on the Wiki and correct it yourself. Instructions on how to use the wiki are here:
http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1283.0 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1283.0)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Edouard:
Thanks for posting the wiki article comparing the USB and IP data loggers. The only thing that I think is missing from your post is the option to use an Apple Express to provide a flexible wireless access point for your Davis console.
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Nice work Edouard [tup]
[Edit: I run both here - one advantage of the IP based logger is it is not susceptible to electrical noise]
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Dear Blick, Stu, and WeatherCat hardware tinkerers,
The only thing that I think is missing from your post is the option to use an Apple Express to provide a flexible wireless access point for your Davis console.
I had mentioned Ethernet to Wi-Fi adapters in the generic because there are multiple manufacturers out there and I assume Apple isn't the least expensive. However, I went ahead and added an explicit mention of the Apple Express.
[Edit: I run both here - one advantage of the IP based logger is it is not susceptible to electrical noise]
Yes, I remembered that as well yesterday but didn't include it. Oh well, it is a relevant point even if ferrite clamps usually solve the problem so I also added that as well.
Hopefully, we are now in business! [computer]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Thanks for adding those tweaks. I think the article is a great addition to the Wiki. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
I had mentioned Ethernet to Wi-Fi adapters in the generic because there are multiple manufacturers out there and I assume Apple isn't the least expensive. However, I went ahead and added an explicit mention of the Apple Express.
I agree with you on the adapters, but an Apple Express is less expensive than purchasing a Davis Envoy.
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Hi Blick and WeatherCat hardware tinkers,
I agree with you on the adapters, but an Apple Express is less expensive than purchasing a Davis Envoy.
Yes that's true, but the USB datalogger is much less expensive than the IP logger. At Scaled Instruments (http://www.scaledinstruments.com/) the USB data logger and Weather Envoy are about $150 each, so total cost is $300.
Again at Scaled Instruments the IP data logger is $265. I couldn't find a new Airport Express for less than $100. Even if you get a used one at around $40, you are still looking at a $300 investment. There are other Ethernet to Wi-Fi adapters out there. If you do some savvy shopping, you might save yourself $20 over the USB logger and Weather Envoy combo, but that's a fair amount of effort for less than you can fill up your car with.
It seems to me that you simply want to separate your console from your computer, you'd better make up your mind based on something other than cost.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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It seems to me that you simply want to separate your console from your computer, you'd better make up your mind based on something other than cost.
You hit the nail on the head mate. It is not a cost driven decision; it is based on the need to have the console somewhere other than next to the computer.
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Hi Guys,
Back from a great honeymoon in Paris, France. Weather was really great, 26c on average with a couple of heavy thunder storms mainly late evening. Now back in 'blighty' (UK) and Scotland staying in the the UK I can now focus on purchasing of my VP2/ logger!!
Catch up soon!
Cheers!
JT
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Dear JT and WeatherCatters, . . . . . ;)
;) . . . . Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to have that word added the Oxford dictionary!! . . . [lol2]
Back from a great honeymoon in Paris, France.
Glad you had a great time!
Now back in 'blighty' (UK) and Scotland staying in the the UK I can now focus on purchasing of my VP2/ logger!!
Should you have any new questions don't hesitate to ask!
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Hi all,
I'm still using the old datalogger with the RS-232 serial port, but would like to have my VP2 Console connected to the AP Express in the living room.
As a new IP data logger is 260 EUROS (? US$330), I was wondering if I could use a RS232-to-Ethernet converter for about a fifth of the price (we Dutch always try to save money.. ;)) . Anyone tried this? Should this work and would WC consider this an IP connection?
Here's an example of such a device: http://www.hexin-technology.com/RS-232_To_Ethernet_TCP_IP_Serial_Device_Server-Product-252.html
Thanks,
Jos
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Dear Jos and WeatherCat hardware tinkerers,
As a new IP data logger is 260 EUROS (? US$330), I was wondering if I could use a RS232-to-Ethernet converter for about a fifth of the price (we Dutch always try to save money.. ;)) . Anyone tried this?
I have no idea if this could be made to work. I can tell you I had a horrible experience with USB over Ethernet adapters, but I don't know if that experience is at all related.
Should this work and would WC consider this an IP connection?
Here's an example of such a device: http://www.hexin-technology.com/RS-232_To_Ethernet_TCP_IP_Serial_Device_Server-Product-252.html
There is no way WeatherCat could recognize the RS232-to-Ethernet converter. The WeatherLink IP data logger is a tiny web server device, and that's how WeatherCat communicates with it. If you want to go with the RS232-to-Ethernet converter, I think you would need two of them so that your computer is hooked back up to a serial converter that WeatherCat can recognize.
If you try this, definitely buy your components from someplace where you can return the items if this doesn't work out. It looks a like a long shot to me.
Good luck with it though.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
P.S. Have you looked into getting a Weather Envoy instead? That would allow you to move your existing data logger next to your computer and free your console to be located elsewhere. It might be a bit more expensive, but should be much more straightforward and dependable.
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Hi Edouard,
Many thanks for your response. "The WeatherLink IP data logger is a tiny web server device" probably means this is some kind of proprietary solution so the converter is indeed very unlikely to work.
I have looked at the Envoy, but read somewhere that my current datalogger needs to be the right version/firmware for this to work - marked by a green dot on the packaging (which I threw away 13 years(!) ago). ;D
Regards,
Jos
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It is a bit after the fact but the following is relevant to this discussion thread. I just helped a fellow Vantage Pro 2 user set up his connection from the Vantage Pro 2 to the Internet using the Ambient Weather "AirBridge." The device receives from the Vantage Pro sensor suite directly and then transmits the data via the homeowners wifi directly to whatever weather reporting site one uses, including WeatherUnderground. The website details some of the features and lack of features pretty well. He got tired of having to keep his computer running all the time and its tendency to lock up, especially when he was out of town. With this setup the console becomes extraneous (as does his home computer) and can be placed anywhere that one desires to view the data from the sensor suite. This setup could be an alternative to having a dedicated computer to operate as a weather server and a less expensive.
http://www.ambientweather.com/airbridge.html (http://www.ambientweather.com/airbridge.html)
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Dear LesCimes and WeatherCat gadget lovers,
It is a bit after the fact but the following is relevant to this discussion thread. I just helped a fellow Vantage Pro 2 user set up his connection from the Vantage Pro 2 to the Internet using the Ambient Weather "AirBridge." The device receives from the Vantage Pro sensor suite directly and then transmits the data via the homeowners wifi directly to whatever weather reporting site one uses, including WeatherUnderground.
. . .
http://www.ambientweather.com/airbridge.html (http://www.ambientweather.com/airbridge.html)
Hmm, definitely an interesting device. Of course, if this fellow was using a dedicated Mac and WeatherCat, lock-ups would have not been a problem! ;)
Still, it definitely might have interesting applications. For example for getting weather data from a remote cabin that experiences severe weather.
Thanks for bring this to our attention! [tup]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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According to this PDF doc, the new firmware 3.x isn't compatible with the old data loggers.
http://meteo.annoyingdesigns.com/DavisSPI.pdf
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According to this PDF doc, the new firmware 3.x isn't compatible with the old data loggers.
This is an interesting read. Thanks for posting. I don't have anything to add, except to confirm that my Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus console always reads 3? F too high for internal temperature. I have "calibrated" it by entering a 3? offset in the console so I can get an accurate result.