Trixology
Weather => Weather Hardware/Measurement => Topic started by: ddrankin on April 29, 2014, 10:44:47 PM
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My wife and I are having a home built in a neighborhood that has a Home Owner?s Association (HOA). I?ve never lived in an HOA neighborhood and I?m a little concerned about how I am going to set up my weather station.
Right now, my Davis Vue is mounted on an unused basket ball pole next to my driveway and that has worked very well for the past few years.
But in the new place, anything placed in the front yard has to be approved by the HOA and they are not going to allow anyone to install basket ball poles. They can not restrict solar panels or satellite dishes placed on the roof, but they can restrict other things. It looks like I will have to get approval to mount my weather station if it is in the front, on top of the roof, or visible over my 6 foot back yard fence.
I realize all HOA?s have different rules, but I would be interested in hearing the experiences of anyone else how has had to deal with their HOA to set up their weather station.
And I would like to hear opinions on this idea:
The HOA will allow you to mount a flag pole in the front yard without prior approval. So I was looking at this pole:
http://www.amazon.com/XtremepowerUS-In-Ground-United-America-Aluminum/dp/B00CKWXEAO/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1398806787&sr=8-8&keywords=flag+pole+kit
And then I would just mount my Davis Vue at the top instead of the usual brass ball. Has anyone used this kind of a pole in the past?
Thanks.
Devin
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Devin:
I haven't used that flagpole, but do have plenty of interaction with HOAs. My suggestion is to save yourself the potential hassle of arguing with them after you install your station and go talk to them now. Take a photo of the ISS and show them, along with giving them its dimensions. It's not very large and is not intrusive. My advice is to be upfront with them and tell them what you would like to do. Remember to tell them that you will fly the flag, but also want to mount it on top of your flagpole. However, go prepared. Read the CC&Rs and know your rights. Unless the the CC&Rs specifcally state that you can only fly a flag on the pole and cannot use it for any other purpose, then you have the right to mount the weather station on it. The risk you run by just sticking it up without asking is getting off on the wrong foot with them if they want to argue with you about taking it down. Take the high road and ask nicely in advance.
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Agree with Blick on this one! With HOA's it's always better to front run your proposal and ask their opinion. You may not like what you hear, but you'll at least learn what to expect from them. It might have been a good test to run before purchasing the property.
As for the weather station, it's best to mount the ISS about 5' off the ground and away from heat absorbing mass like driveways or asphalt streets. However, the idea of placing the anemometer at the top of the pole is a winner! Thanks for sharing your find. I may want one of those poles myself. My anemometer is on the roof with a wireless transmitter. All service involves a ladder and someone to hold it while I risk my life climbing from ladder to rooftop. Your flagpole idea is inexpensive, and clever enough to work.
Thanks again,
Herb
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You might also state the advantages to the residents of the area in that you are providing local weather conditions for all.
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It is a good idea to take it to the HOA first, but have your lawyer check the cc&r before you go, the HOA often has them written in such a way to hide their ability to do what they want and to prevent you from doing what you want. My neighborhood HOA has tried all sorts of things with me since I'm an amateur radio operator and they don't allow for my antennas. The thing was, I bought my house from a homeowner and the cc&r did not transfer to me. My lawyer found that it didn't have any say in what I do anymore, only the previous homeowner. I still pay my dues to them, but I get something in return so it's OK. But when I put up a new antenna, and they start to complain, I remind them that they have no basis for their complaint. I then remind them that what I do is also a public service that can and does benefit the people living in our neighborhood. That usually works for both the weather station as well as the amateur radio station.
I guess some of them are just scarred [banghead]
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Just to update this.
My wife and I moved into the new house just before Thanksgiving. I contacted the administrator for the HOA and explained that I wanted to set up a flag pole, but instead of a ball or an eagle on top, I wanted to install a Vantage Vue. We exchanged a series of e-mails and she said that she thought it would be ok, but would run it past the design committee at their next meeting.
I got a phone call from the administrator a few days ago saying that the committee said that I could "absolutely replace the ball at the top of the flagpole with a weather station as long as I followed the HOA rules on Flagpoles." So good news. The rules just involve the maximum hight (20 feet) and the setbacks from the property lines.
So yesterday I bought my flagpole and dug the hole to get the mounting pipe set up. All I have to do now is work out just how I will mount the station. There is a threaded hole at the top of the pole to screw in a ball. So I just need to find a threaded rod that is 6 or 7 inches long. Or find a way to put a threaded end on short pole.
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That is a nice outcome. Congratulations.
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I'd love to see what your final solution looks like. Please post a picture if you can.
Thanks,
nowait
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Great advice! Good outcome!
I guess some of them are just scarred
And with good cause. I have personal experience with why they can be "scarred". We have had 'developers' try to build commercial buildings adjacent our very small subdivision even though it required a zoning change/exemption. We also had a 'developer' build a minimum sized house and then try to subdivide the lot. The City Council actually went with our opinions over their own lawyers! Of course, we elect the councilmen, not the lawyer! :) BTW, we were helped out by another developer; he actually bought the remainder of the lot, even though it is too small and narrow to build on. 8) Of course, he can afford that cost much more then the ~45 home owners on our single-street, dead-end, "subdivision"! :P
Most HOA's I've known of are simply trying to protect their investment in their property. Of course, there are some who just want to have some kind of power over some one and give a bad name to other HOA's. Always best to read & understand these kinds of controls, but don't forget the ones in the city and county, either! :) BTW, I would encourage any of you who have a HOA where you live to volunteer for some of the positions on their board. The pay is usually non-existent, but the help will be appreciated!
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My station has been up and running for several months, so I thought I would upload a few photos and post a few things I have learned from the project.
I bought the pole and flag kit from my local hardware store for about $150. The pole comes in 5 segments and includes a 6th plastic segment about 18 inches long that is meant to be buried in the ground and cemented in place.
The kit also comes with a brass looking ball that is meant to sit atop the pole. The ball is just screwed into a threaded hole on top of the pulley. I went back to the hardware store and bought a six inch long bolt, threaded on both ends. I added a couple of lock washers and nuts, and a long, thick nut at the top to give the pole clamp something to clamp to. My thinking was that I wanted the station to sit well above the flag so that the flag did not hit the wind vane. The top nut ended up still being too small for the pole clamp and I had to pad it out further with some wood. You can see the finished mounting setup attached to the top pulley in the photo below.
After thinking things over, I ended up setting the flag pole in my back yard. This let me plant the station over grass. The pole is high enough so that the station is above my roof line to the west and I have the park to the east, so wind flow is unobstructed.
There is some sway to pole in almost any wind. I don't think that causes any real problems. One issue I had was that in winds over about 12 MPH, the flag created enough torque on the pole to spin the weather station out of north-south alignment. Somedays I came home to see the station pointing east-west. The problem seemed to be that the top most segment was moving, being pulled on by the top pulley. To solve that, I ended up taking the pole apart and super glueing the segments together. I've had winds in the low 30's since then and the station was not pulled out of alignment.
What do you think? Any ideas for improvements?
Devin
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One issue I had was that in winds over about 12 MPH, the flag created enough torque on the pole to spin the weather station out of north-south alignment.
Hello Devin,
the issue mentioned above: Doesn't the rattle on the pole have influence to the rain bucket?
Cheers,
Reinhard
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the issue mentioned above: Doesn't the rattle on the pole have influence to the rain bucket?
Cheers,
Reinhard
I have not had an issue with the Vue giving false rainfall readings as a result of the pole being moved by the wind. I did manage to record .04 inch of rainfall when I took the pole down to glue the joints. I think that was a result of rapid up and down motions when I was pulling the poles apart or forcing them back together. But so far the side to side motion of the wind sway has not triggered the rain fall cup to move. I've had winds in the low 30's since putting it up on the flag pole. It may be that higher winds than that will trigger something. I'll have to see. A few times I have removed the flag in higher winds to reduce the pull it makes on the pole. But the last few times we had higher winds I have not been home to take the flag down. Despite my worries, no damage done to the pole and no false rain readings.
Devin
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Devin:
Thanks for the explanation and for posting the photos. I love it when a project comes together.
For next time, I may be wrong, and if I am someone will no doubt be kind enough to correct me, but I believe if you put your console in Setup Mode it will not record any "data" that may be collected whilst you are mucking about with your ISS, pole etc. You just have to remember to exit Setup Mode when you are done.
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Dear Devin, Blick, and WeatherCat station layout consultants,
My station has been up and running for several months, so I thought I would upload a few photos and post a few things I have learned from the project.
I bought the pole and flag kit from my local hardware store for about $150. The pole comes in 5 segments and includes a 6th plastic segment about 18 inches long that is meant to be buried in the ground and cemented in place.
I had forgotten about your scheme to "camouflage" your weather station support as simply a flag pole. It is an elegant way to avoid offending people.
There is some sway to pole in almost any wind. I don't think that causes any real problems. One issue I had was that in winds over about 12 MPH, the flag created enough torque on the pole to spin the weather station out of north-south alignment. Somedays I came home to see the station pointing east-west. The problem seemed to be that the top most segment was moving, being pulled on by the top pulley. To solve that, I ended up taking the pole apart and super glueing the segments together. I've had winds in the low 30's since then and the station was not pulled out of alignment.
What do you think? Any ideas for improvements?
It is too late for these suggestions in your case but should anyone else think about this sort of scheme, I think I would recommend that the person upgrade to a Davis Vantage Pro-2 station so that only the anemometer would have to be at the top of the flag-pole. I think a Vantage Vue is a bit too heavy for a flag-pole and that explains some of your problems. If you get extreme winds, the pole might fail since it wasn't designed for that.
In our neighborhood, someone has put a VP-2 anemometer on the top of a flag pole, but didn't put a flag. In addition, he lashed the pole to a support on the side of the house. That makes the pole stiffer.
I suppose there is one more trick that could be tried in situations like yours when there is a Home Owner Association. I wonder if they would approve two flag poles. One carrying the real flag and another at the distance where one would expect another flag, but this one carrying the anemometer. The real flag-pole would make the anemometer supporting pole seem natural and that would avoid any of the stress caused by the flag waving in the wind to interfere with the weather data collection.
Thanks for sharing! It is a very interesting way to accommodate your neighbors and still get weather data.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Nice job! Glad you got it worked out.
NoWait
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What weather station? But how did you get that big bird to sit on the top of your flag pole long enough to get a picture?! Seriously, I don't see how anyone could complain! Of course, there is always that 4.29 percent... [banghead]
We had someone at our church want to have a huge flag pole mounted, there was a free one offered by the people who were demolishing an old shopping mall, that pole is 35' tall and has at least six feet of it in the ground. My only concern was who would take care of the flags in really windy conditions. Wind is the most damaging weather on any flag. Since I was less than a quarter of a mile away, guess who ended up caring for the flag? Frankly, I doubt that even half the congregation even knows there is a flag there. ::) Enough ranting, just encouraging you to take the flag down when gusts over 30 mph are forecast. And, please, surf over to the Presidential Proclamations web site to be sure you honor half-staff notices, even if you aren't a government facility. It's our Nations flag, after all. [cheer]
If the 'super glue' ever breaks lose, I'd suggest drilling through the joints so you can run a ?" bolt and nut. Assuming the pole walls are sufficiently thick, that should take care of the twisting without weakening the pole. Even a very small hole at one spot with a small, self-threading screw might be enough. :-\
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Or a cotter pin.
Nice setup, ddrankin! Congratulations on a job well done!
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My flag pole solution worked well for several months. Several of the neighbors took to time to tell me how much they enjoyed the flag and my neighbor behind me even said that seeing the flag flying played a part when they chose their lot because they are both in the military and they can see it from their bedroom window in the morning.
But the question of how much wind it could take was answered a few weeks ago. We had a summer thunderstorm and the station recorded a 51 MPH wind gust. The wind was strong enough to blow over a block fence a short distance away. The pole did not completely fail, but every part of it is bent in some way and the cement mounting is now loose in the ground. The pole had about a 10 degree tilt before I took it down. I was at work when the storm hit, so I was unable to take down the flag which I think would have prevented most of the damage.
So now I ponder my options. Stronger poles are out there and a larger mounting hole to hold more cement would have helped. And I think that I may very well go with a Vantage Pro so I can just mount the wind speed and direction instruments at the top and mount the other, heaver ones on a shorter separate pole.
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Sorry for the problem, but your thinking is sound. Separating the anemometer is a good solution. I did that last summer, after mounting them together for 7 years. The other nice thing about having the ISS unit mounted lower is that it is much easier to access it for maintenance, changing the battery, cleaning out and applying Rain-X in the collector cup, etc.
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Dear Devin, Blick, and WeatherCat station design consultants, . . .
My flag pole solution worked well for several months.
. . . .
But the question of how much wind it could take was answered a few weeks ago.
. . .
The pole did not completely fail, but every part of it is bent in some way and the cement mounting is now loose in the ground.
I was afraid that this might happen to you. Flagpoles are designed to take the load of a - flag. With everyone trying to squeeze the most out of the minimum of material, it is unlikely that flagpoles available to today have the conservative construction to take the additional weight of a Vantage Vue.
I was at work when the storm hit, so I was unable to take down the flag which I think would have prevented most of the damage.
Yes, the flag causes the greatest drag and perhaps removing the flag would have avoiding damaging the pole. However, if you have a pole designed for the wind conditions in your area, then the flag by itself should have done no damage.
So now I ponder my options. Stronger poles are out there and a larger mounting hole to hold more cement would have helped. And I think that I may very well go with a Vantage Pro so I can just mount the wind speed and direction instruments at the top and mount the other, heaver ones on a shorter separate pole.
I second Blick's comments. There is an example of a house in our neighborhood using a flagpole to support the VP-2 anemometer. It is described here:
http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1654.msg14446#msg14446 (http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1654.msg14446#msg14446)
Here is a photo showing the flagpole and the anemometer on top:
(https://canebas.smugmug.com/photos/i-FgzTrCh/0/L/i-FgzTrCh-L.jpg) (https://canebas.smugmug.com/Nature/Weather/Weather-station-instations/n-LtJ5kp/i-FgzTrCh/A)
That represents so much smaller of a obstacle than your Vantage Vue did. Any flagpole that is robust enough to take the flag shouldn't have any trouble having the anemometer on top. This particular installation stiffened the pole by securing it to the house. If that's an option in your case that's is a further defense against flexing.
Best of luck getting your station back up and running! [tup]
Cheers, Edouard