Author Topic: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme  (Read 2812 times)

AMS

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WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« on: February 27, 2013, 09:43:49 PM »
My apologies if this question is in the wrong area. Wasn't sure if this the best spot or not.

Is anyone running WeatherCat via WeatherLinkIP logger/Wireless Envoy and an Apple AirPort Extreme base station?

I currently have my WeatherLinkIP logger/Envoy connected to the back of a combined DSL modem wifi router/AP. This works well and I have no issues running WC with the logger still uploading to the WL site. My wife and I are migrating to macs after 25 years on PCs. We have already taken delivery of one 27" mac and another is on the way. I was looking at getting an Apple Time Capsule (airport extreme with built in NAS) and am aware that despite being a wireless router they still need to be connected to a DSL modem. This means I would need to turn off the wireless LAN function within my existing router and then connect it to the Time Capsule via Ethernet.

My question is...... Will my WeatherLinkIP logger still work as it does and should it be plugged into the existing modem or the new Time Capsule (with built in wireless router)?

Does anyone here have the WeatherLinkIP logger and an Airport base station??

elagache

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Networking Voodoo. (Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme)
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 09:55:24 PM »
Dear AMS and WeatherCat home networking gurus,

I wish I could offer you better advice than I can, but this is a can of worms in my opinion and I don't know if anybody has done something to fix it.  Here is the problem as best I understand it and please if someone else knows better correct me.

To have any presence on the Internet you need a public IP address.  That is what your DSL modem is giving you.  However, like most people, you have more than one device.  Unless you are paying extra, you get 1 IP address from your ISP.  So if you are like our household, 1 IP address is serving dozens of devices - how is this possible?

It is done using a technology that used to be called IP masquerade and is now more commonly called NAT (Network Address Translation.)  Your household is treated as an Intranet, a private network completely cut off from the outside world.  Then a device (in your case your DSL Router) encodes packets from your various devices as if they were coming from that 1 IP address that your house has assigned from your ISP.  It keeps track of the packets so that it can then reassign the packets on your Intranet when the replies come back.  It works much like the post office.  The public IP address works a lot like a zip code.  Until mail arrives at your local town, it doesn't matter which street it should be delivered to.  Once it arrives at your local post office (your DSL router) then it handles the reading of the street numbers to that your mailbox (say your Mac or iPhone) gets the right packet.

Okay, what does this have to do with your problem.  Your DSL router is acting like a post office.  If you simply connect the Apple Time Capsule on the back of the DSL router, it is like connecting a post office behind another post office.  There is no reason why it cannot work, but it certainly isn't the most efficient.  In addition, you need to be careful.  Intranets are assigned blocks of the Internet IP address space (IPv4 address.)  Most of these devices use addresses like 192.168.0.0 or 192.168.1.0 spaces.  If your DSL router and the Apple Time Capsule use the same default Intranet, the packets won't be routed properly (think about it as having two post offices with the same zipcode - won't work.)

I'm very old school.  I'm using a Mac Mini as an active firewall and it has UNIX software running on it that emulates what your DSL router is doing.  I also have a WiFi access point, but I've turned off (with some pain and misery) its NAT (IP masquerade) capability.  So at our house, we have a single Intranet.  The Mac Mini is our access point to the wide Internet and it assigns the IP addresses to everything from my Mac to our TiVo.  Even a device on WiFi must then move on the ethernet network to the Mac Mini to get assigned an IP address and have it's traffic placed on the wider Internet.

Now the problem you describe must be much more common.  I would hope that it is now possible to get two devices that can be a router (i.e. do NAT/IP masquerade) to work with each other without problems.  However, I haven't bought one so I don't know that.

Can somebody who has a more modern network explain how to do this?

Sorry for the long winded explanation.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

JosBaz

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 04:01:55 PM »
Hi AMS,

If your DSL Modem with WiFi is offering Ethernet ports (UTP) like mine, it will most likely also act as a DHCP server, i.e. it is doing the NAT for you handing out IP addresses to the computers and other devices on your network so they can all share the Internet connection.

If this is working for you now, I would add the Apple Time capsule and simply put it in Bridge Mode. This way it will not do the routing/NAT, but will only offer
Wireless and wired connectivity, while getting an IP address from your DSL router like everything else (so you can get to the HDD).
After that it should not matter wether you connect your WLIP logger to the Apple TC or a free port on your DSL router.

Hope this helps,

Jos

prmija

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2013, 07:00:40 PM »
Hi AMS,

From my experience of actually trying a similar configuration, I had troubles finding the device IP address when my Davis Vantage Pro 2 console was connected to an Airport Extreme using the WeatherLinkIP logger. The MAC address was visible but not the IP address.  I’m not a home network guru so perhaps I missed something important but I did put the Extreme in various configurations on my network and tried different settings.  Nothing worked for me when the VP2 was connected directly to the Extreme.

I eventually gave up and tried connecting to an Airport Express and had instant success. The Express is a smaller unit, allows for a wireless client and is set to “join my existing network”.  Yes, it also facilitates the upload of data to the WL site.

I had asked Davis prior to trying this configuration and they were less than optimistic about the success.  Perhaps I've just been lucky but it has worked for me for the past year.

Hope that helps.
Jim

AMS

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2013, 11:56:49 PM »
Hi all

Thanks for that. I actually have a fair amount of know how and experience with all things wifi... I used to play around a lot with war driving and stuff.... Got to the point I could use the BackTrack Linux suite of tools to crack WEP pass codes in only an hour or so. (Never used it for unethical purposes though). I'm just not entirely sure how the data logger works in relation to that fact it has both a wired Ethernet connection and a wireless IP address.

I currently do have the dsl router/AP set to work as a DHCP server, but I do also have it set up so some devices are issued with fixed IP addresses on my LAN. I did this so it's easier to clearly see what device is which when looking at the association table etc.

Jos you say that the AirPort Extreme (or Time Capsule) can be used as a bridge yes? It can be somehow put in a bridge mode? That would certainly work I think. Can't see why it wouldn't.

AMS

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2013, 11:58:52 PM »
Ok just a follow up on my previous comment.

I've done some further research and Jos you are correct. The time capsule can easily be put into bridge mode. This will allow me to continue to use the dsl modem as a router and DHCP server for all devices. All routing, firewall and ip allocation will still be handled by the router (which is great as its a very good router with lots of functionality, plus I'm used to it) and the time capsule will act as a passive gateway between devices connected wirelessly and the dsl modem/router. It will also retain all of its functionality as a NAS device. Yay!!

Thanks again to everyone who has offered their advice. Much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Now if you'll excuse me.... I need to log onto the apple store and get ordering. Thanks everyone.

Adam.

AMS

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 06:14:36 AM »
My new time capsule arrived today. I have set up a new wifi network on the time capsule (in built airport extreme) and have set it to bridge mode as suggested. Its WAN port is plugged it into my existing dsl modem/router, which has its wireless LAN facility disabled/turned off. I have then plugged the weatherlinkIP logger into a LAN port on the time capsule. Works a treat! No problems at all. Is visible to WC on the LAN and still uploads to WL site.

Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions.

Adam

Steve

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2013, 01:54:03 PM »
It is good to hear that you got things working as hoped, Adam!

Steve
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JosBaz

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 06:47:15 PM »
Good to hear it is working, Adam.

The Time Capsule is a nice piece of equipment: very stable and capable.
I used it in a 'double-NAT' configuration when the DSL modem provided by my ISP couldn't handle the multitude of stations on my home network.  8) I was told it could only support 5 stations on the network, while the TC can do up to 50.

Jos

AMS

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Re: WC, WeatherLinkIP and AirPort Extreme
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 07:17:59 PM »
Yeah I could've just bought a NAS device and connected to existing dsl modem router, but I thought if we've got two new macs I may as well get the TC. Main reason was for seamless backup restore points using time machine. Besides.... I like buying stuff :)

elagache

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Don't we all!! (Re: AirPort Extreme)
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 10:44:44 PM »
Howdy Adam and WeatherCat fans,

Besides.... I like buying stuff :)

 ;) Ya' know, there is a lot of that going around!  8)  There is just one small problem, coming up with da' when the bills come around!  >:(
 [biggrin]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]