Author Topic: CWOP Under Construction  (Read 587 times)

Blicj11

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CWOP Under Construction
« on: December 25, 2017, 08:15:13 AM »
Today I tried to check out the quality control section of my CWOP account and discovered some Holiday traffic jams there, but glad to know he is updating something.
Blick


elagache

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Thanks for the pointer (Re: CWOP Under Construction )
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 11:37:31 PM »
Dear Blick and WeatherCat data submission junkies,

Today I tried to check out the quality control section of my CWOP account and discovered some Holiday traffic jams there, but glad to know he is updating something.

Thanks for the pointer.  I'm also glad to see that CWOP is getting a much overdue upgrade.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Felix

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 10:50:36 AM »
I hope you're correct Edouard and the the algorithms are being 'upgraded' to recognize that many personal weather stations are reporting microclime data which is different from the surrounding area. The differences (from the weighted averages) don't necessarily mean the station's sensors are incorrect.

Blicj11

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 04:43:52 PM »
You are dead on, Felix. I have never been able to pass CWOP quality checks for air pressure readings, but I am being compared to an airport three counties away that is 4,000 feet lower and sitting in a valley than my mountain top home.
Blick


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I hope researchers know better! (Re: CWOP Under Construction )
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 11:14:47 PM »
Dear Felix, Blick, and WeatherCat station caregivers,

I hope you're correct Edouard and the the algorithms are being 'upgraded' to recognize that many personal weather stations are reporting microclime data which is different from the surrounding area. The differences (from the weighted averages) don't necessarily mean the station's sensors are incorrect.

I agree with your gripe, but I suspect the upgrades are simply to improve capacity and performance.  I'm not sure there is much of anything that can be done to improve the assessment of the station's purported data accuracy.  Honestly, I wonder if it is intended for anyone outside of the station owners themselves and is intended to motivate them to upgrade their equipment if possible.  Given that plenty of inexpensive stations can upload to CWOP, some encouragement to get a better quality station certainly is desirable in order to improve the overall quality of the data.

The 64-dollar question is whether or not researchers look at those assessments when deciding if the data is worth using for their research activities.  If they are really interested in a location where you happen to have a weather station and you have a top quality station like Davis - I think a researcher will at least look at the data you are sending.  If the data looks of good quality (sent very regularly, extremely consistent with the weather expected at the time, etc.) I think researchers will use your data no matter what the CWOP assessment of your station turns out to be.

At least that is what I hope!!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Blicj11

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 11:20:45 AM »
Well stated, Edouard.
Blick


Felix

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 02:03:36 PM »
Blick, if you are still receiving a low CWOP rating after this so-called 'new system' is implemented, I might suggest you e-mail Phil Gladstone and make your case.


This past summer I was teaching an NWS Net Control class (for HAM radio operators training to become Desk Operators for the SKYWARN amateur radio program) and the subject of Gladstone's QC ratings came up during the lunch break. One of the attendees has a situation similar to yours...he owns a vineyard along the Shenandoah Mountain Range and he could never receive anything but a Red "X" on his station because it was being compared to stations down in the valley.


He explained that he e-mailed Gladstone, described the situation and included pictures of his station siting as well as a scanned copy of his WeatherHawk station's NIST certificate.


Result, he got a nice reply back with an acknowledgment that the algorithm had things all cocked up with respect to his station and that it was "fixed." And it was, no more complaints and green checks going forward.


elagache

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Thanks for the suggestion! (Re: CWOP Under Construction )
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 11:12:42 PM »
Dear Blick, Felix, and WeatherCat station caregivers,

Blick, if you are still receiving a low CWOP rating after this so-called 'new system' is implemented, I might suggest you e-mail Phil Gladstone and make your case.

Interesting suggestion!  Sometimes the direct route is the best!  [tup]

He explained that he e-mailed Gladstone, described the situation and included pictures of his station siting as well as a scanned copy of his WeatherHawk station's NIST certificate.

If I recall correctly, we are requested to submit photos of our installation when we signed up to CWOP.  I'm sure doing this would increase the credibility of your station in the eyes of a potential researcher that might want to use your data to investigate your local micro-climate.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Blicj11

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 11:46:23 PM »
Great suggestion Felix. Thanks for sharing.
Blick


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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 06:08:43 PM »
Gladstonefamily seems to be back in business.  [tup]
Reinhard


Blicj11

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2018, 06:22:21 PM »
Good to know. Thanks for the update.
Blick


Felix

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2018, 12:32:18 PM »
I don't believe any real changes have been made to the algorithms. I was looking at the Quality Control report on Dulles Int'l Aprt this morning and was astounded to see that there are nearby personal weather stations located in small-lot size residential areas which clearly do not meet the NWS anemometer siting guidelines...yet some of these nearby sites have smaller error averages and lower standard deviation errors than Dulles. Now if the nation's 26th largest airport (in terms of passenger throughput) with it's array of frequent NIST-certified commercial grade weather equipment isn't considered the gold standard by which all nearby stations are measured, I think Phil Gladstone's system still needs tweaking.


http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/search?site=kiad





Blicj11

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Re: CWOP Under Construction
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2018, 07:52:44 AM »
Yes, good point, Felix.
Blick


elagache

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Who uses those rating anyway? (Re: CWOP Under Construction )
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 12:06:29 AM »
Dear Blick, Felix, and WeatherCat faithful,

I think Phil Gladstone's system still needs tweaking.

I agree 100% with your basic points, but I fear you might be tilting at a windmill on this one.  I don't know if there is a well-established methodology to rate the accuracy of weather data from station to station.  If Phil Gladstone was forced to come up with something that is somewhat arbitrary, there simply might not be anything easily available to create ratings that are demonstrably better.

I have no idea who uses CWOP data anyway.  I do know a bit about using data where the reliability of the data isn't certain and you can use statistical tools to make inferences even if you cannot trust all the data.  So researchers who need a shotgun approach to data can simply use it all without worrying about station ratings.  If researchers do really care about data from a particular station, I think they would take the time to check if the station is setup correctly.

So I don't think the research community is likely to pay any attention to Phil Gladstone ratings.  That only leaves us amateurs.  It may hurt our feelings a bit when our stations are unfairly derided.  But if clearly the rating system is flawed, we should probably just let it slide and move on to problems we have some hope of addressing.

I doesn't make me feel better either, but these days I need to be choosy of the battles I decide to fight.

Oh well, . . . . . Edouard