Author Topic: Wx Cam adventures  (Read 29182 times)

elagache

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Wisdom from Murphy . . . . (Re: Wx Cam adventures)
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2015, 09:19:53 PM »
Dear Felix, Herb, X-Air, and WeatherCat do-it-yourselfers . . . .

 ;) . . . . . Remember, nothing is a ever a complete failure.  It can always be used as a - negative - example!! . . . .  [lol2]

Yup, definitely file this one under:

With friends like this, you don't need any enemies!!  [biggrin]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Bull Winkus

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2015, 10:38:28 PM »
Which I could offer up some insight, but I've never dealt with PoE.

Troubleshooting is mostly a process of elimination, as you no doubt already know. Perhaps a trip to the loo will give you some insight?

Herb

xairbusdriver

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2015, 11:34:13 PM »
Quote
Perhaps a trip to the loo will give you some insight?
I'll have to wait my turn!

Ethernet is about as simple as it gets, as long as you don't have to actually build the RJ-45 connections! :) I now know all the cables are good, the ports on the Extreme work, and the injector should have more than enough power, the key word being "should". I got side tracked this morning before I could check the 100' cable for voltage at the outside end. Tomorrow may be busy also, but I need to get that measured. Things are a little hectic with my out-of-town, not too healthy, in-laws right now...
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xairbusdriver

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2015, 06:36:50 PM »
After a week+ of emails and frustrating confusions (mostly on my part), I think I have finally figured out how to return the inop camera. Various web site design considerations contributed to my confusion. I suspect my lack of analytical and reading skills added to the problem. After all, it's impossible to make something idiot-proof!

I actually have an RMA based on my very first attempt, it was approved within 24 hours. However, following the link to 'print out the RMA form' (I assume a mailing label or just a snail mail address), one reaches a page explaining that one must create an account. Did that. Welcome email received. Logged in, went to 'Warranty/Returns' page and eventually see the exact page I filled out before; just a request for an RMA.

"OK, if that's the way they want t, I'll do it all again." Of course, I expected to then be see either the RMA label or the shipping instructions. Nope. Just sends another request message to them. Several more emails, last one asking if I'd used the "Product Returns" link. Well, no, I don't recall even seeing that label on any link, but I log into my account and find it.

Now in my 'account', I can see that I have no orders, therefore, even in human 'logic', I can't possible request an RMA! I quit for the day. However, I did not close the tab, I just surfed to other things via bookmarks which opened new tabs. Hours later, I started closing tabs and came across the Request page again. However, I have now been logged OUT (Session expired). I now see two different buttons/links; one is for 'people with accounts', the other is for 'guest purchasers'. This is actually only half the story, however.

At the very beginning of this journey, one must select from two choices: A. Warranty Repair or Replacement or B. 'No longer want this product/product didn't work for me.' (actually two rather long sentences with either/or meanings) I created the problem by choosing 'repair/replace' rather than 'broken/didn't work'. My "reasoning" was that the particular hardware was DOA and simply needed replacing. By making that choice, I never got to see the 'registered member' or 'guest' links for two reasons:
1. They only appear when one wants a complete refund.
AND
2. One has not logged into your account, since the account was never used in the first place!

Problems caused by me:
I ordered as a "Guest"
I chose 'repair/replace' instead of 'return' (BTW, there is no "Refund" option)
I registered after starting the RMA request action.

Problems caused by the company:
Not enough 'idiot-proof' studies.

This is mostly a UX design problem: The site developer knows what he (and the client) wants, so he already understand exactly how to navigate his site. I am honestly very happy with the fellow I've been emailing. He has been extremely patient and helpful. He simply has probably never used the site in the manner I did. It's been a humbling and educational experience.
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
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elagache

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Wishing you better luck on the next camera (Re: Wx Cam adventures)
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2015, 11:00:10 PM »
Dear X-Air and WeatherCat troubleshooters,

After a week+ of emails and frustrating confusions (mostly on my part), I think I have finally figured out how to return the inop camera.

Sorry it came down to that.  I hope you can find another camera that is easier to use and fits into the original installation scheme.

Edouard

xairbusdriver

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2015, 01:27:15 AM »
That's my main criteria for a PoE camera. Choices are mainly from EvoCam's list. ;)
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LesCimes

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2015, 06:31:52 PM »
What a bummer story! Sorry to hear about that. I guess we all have had similar experiences. Ordering via the Internet has its caveats.

xairbusdriver

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2015, 10:06:13 PM »
I'm supposed to get a printable RMA label this afternoon. Had another tech from the company checking if I'd been helped by the other guy. Can't complain about the company, really. The real problem is my not understanding the difference between "repair/replace" and "didn't work" combined with not being able to see a "guest" link early in the process. Once I became a "registered" customer, the fact that there were no orders made things even worse. [banghead]
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xairbusdriver

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2015, 03:38:37 AM »
Got the RMA label at 4:56 PM. Handed the box to the Mail Pak clerk at 5:21 PM. "Box is in the 'mail'"! Expect to her the "check is in the mail" within 30 days...
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
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xairbusdriver

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2015, 08:23:42 PM »
Company refunded all my dollars thru Amazon. However I need to do some research about power, voltage, etc. While my injector was getting 12.41 V to the end of the 100' cable, the salesman suggested I needed to use a 48 V injector to power the 12 V camera. My injector is rated at 1 amp which should equal 12 watts. I was told the camera needed no more than 6 watts! 48 V doesn't make sense to me. Nor is there any reference to anything other than 12 V in its specs.
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elagache

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Huh? . . . (Re: Wx Cam adventures)
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2015, 10:59:25 PM »
Dear X-Air and WeatherCat tinkerers,

Company refunded all my dollars thru Amazon. However I need to do some research about power, voltage, etc. While my injector was getting 12.41 V to the end of the 100' cable, the salesman suggested I needed to use a 48 V injector to power the 12 V camera. My injector is rated at 1 amp which should equal 12 watts. I was told the camera needed no more than 6 watts! 48 V doesn't make sense to me. Nor is there any reference to anything other than 12 V in its specs.

Huh? . . . That's just plain wrong.

Resistance doesn't lower the voltage that much, it lowers the current received on the far end.  One of the reasons I'm dashing about in this forum is that I'm working very hard on a headlight upgrade on my wagon and I had to figure out how much current was needed to feed 6 55 watt H1 automobile bulbs.  I used this table to help me:

http://www.amplepower.com/primer/gauge/

It provides the minimum wire gauges needed to have no more than 3% voltage drop at the load.  You should be able to find something equivalent to determine what the voltage drop at the end of a 100 foot power over Ethernet run.  If it is more than a few percent, perhaps indeed their could be a problem, but I would expect perhaps a slightly higher voltage like 14 volts - not 48 volts.  That's enough voltage to fry the camera and perhaps start a fire!

Sorry, not much help but still, 48 volts is way overboard!  :o

Edouard

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2015, 01:24:14 AM »
Don't know if this will clear things up, because I'm not sure what you are doing and PoE is not my forte. But, I hope it helps! - Herb

The original IEEE 802.3af-2003[2] PoE standard provides up to 15.4 W of DC power (minimum 44 V DC and 350 mA[3][4]) to each device.[5] Only 12.95 W is assured to be available at the powered device as some power dissipates in the cable.[6]

The updated IEEE 802.3at-2009[7] PoE standard also known as PoE+ or PoE plus, provides up to 25.5 W of power.[8] The 2009 standard prohibits a powered device from using all four pairs for power.[9] Some vendors have announced products that claim to be compatible with the 802.3at standard and offer up to 51 W of power over a single cable by utilizing all four pairs in the Category 5 cable.[10]

Both of these amendments have since been incorporated into the IEEE 802.3-2012 publication.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

 [tup]

But wait! There's more?
http://www.veracityglobal.com/resources/articles-and-white-papers/poe-explained-part-1.aspx

 [runoff]
Herb

elagache

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Da' plot thickens . . . . (Re: Wx Cam adventures)
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2015, 09:35:59 PM »
Dear X-Air, Herb, and WeatherCat tinkerers, . . . .

Hmm, this definitely throws a new twist into this plot . . . . .

the salesman suggested I needed to use a 48 V injector to power the 12 V camera. My injector is rated at 1 amp which should equal 12 watts. I was told the camera needed no more than 6 watts! 48 V doesn't make sense to me. Nor is there any reference to anything other than 12 V in its specs.

The original IEEE 802.3af-2003[2] PoE standard provides up to 15.4 W of DC power (minimum 44 V DC and 350 mA[3][4]) to each device.[5] Only 12.95 W is assured to be available at the powered device as some power dissipates in the cable.[6]

We have to take seriously the IEEE standard, therefore any camera that is actually designed for PoE should be expecting a minimum of 44 volts DC and perhaps 48 volts is typical.  If so, then the camera that was sold to X-Air is not really designed for PoE installation.

I was confused before, but this is as clear as . . . mud!

Edouard

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2015, 03:03:58 AM »
Standard voltages listed for 'normal' Ethernet PoE switches and/or mid-span injectors are 12, 24, and 48volts.

Link to the camera: <http://www.nellyssecurity.com/eyesurv-esip-apex3-bt1-3mp-ip-ir-outdoor-bullet-security-camera.html#product-tabs>

Note that I had over a dozen emails from/to the tech and I described the injector more than once, almost from the beginning. As well as the length of cable being used. Details like what voltage is needed by any device is not something that should be left to assumptions, in my humble opinion.
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Felix

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Re: Wx Cam adventures
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »
@ " That's enough voltage to fry the camera and perhaps start a fire!"

PoE 802.3at requires a handshake before applying power. Not to worry, a quality PoE injector will negotiate the correct voltage requirement with the powered device.

PoE injectors are pretty cool pieces of hardware. AC line power is first converted to high voltage DC by a diode bridge. Then the DC power is switched on and off by a transistor controlled by a power supply controller IC. The chopped DC is fed into a flyback transformer which converts it into low voltage AC. Finally, this AC is converted back into DC again and filtered to obtain smooth power free of interference. Lastly, power is output through the RJ45-type jack. A feedback circuit measures the output voltage and sends a signal to the controller IC, which adjusts the switching frequency to obtain the correct voltage needed by the powered device.