Author Topic: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!  (Read 35171 times)

elagache

  • Global Moderator
  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 6494
    • DW3835
    • KCAORIND10
    • Canebas Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro-2, Mac mini (2018), macOS 10.14.3, WeatherCat 3
Okay after 24 . . . (Re: da' darn "mellar-drama")
« Reply #105 on: December 30, 2015, 10:55:53 PM »
Dear Blick, Herb, and WeatherCat Davis troubleshooters, . . . .

Everything is once more working fine, but 24 hours is hardly a test period considering the past experience with this problem.

That reminded me that using the higher numbered Davis device IDs were more likely to have this sort of problem.

Interesting. Davis tech support told me to use the higher numbers in trying to sort out my issue in the companion thread. Does anyone have the actual frequencies used by each ID? I can only find the range used by all 8 IDs. I was told that very old wireless telephones can conflict with ID#4.

Perhaps the problems with your station is different in some way and the Davis advice is correct for your setup.  I've been at this for so long I've forgotten everything I've tried and I didn't start keeping a journal of what I tried until I had gone through a lot of trail and error.

The range for all IDs, which you already have, is copied below from the ISS Installation Manual.

902 - 928 MHz FHSS for North America
868.0 -868.6 MHz FHSS for overseas versions: EU, UK, and OV

Old 900 MHz phones are a problem for it in the US, it appears.

That is what I remembered - Davis was in the 900 Mhz range.  I think our oldest wireless phone is a 900 Mhz unit so that would appear to be a potential culprit.  However, that seems extremely unlikely given the behavior.  Using the phone doesn't seem to cause problems and outages happen when the phone isn't being used at all (like after midnight when everyone is asleep . . . . )

I've been racking my brain pondering if we had another 900 Mhz device in the house but I don't know of anything else.  So the puzzle remains.

Cheers, Edouard

Blicj11

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
    • EW3808
    • KUTHEBER6
    • Timber Lakes Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus | WeatherLinkIP Data Logger | iMac (2019), 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9, 40 GB RAM, macOS Ventura 13.6 | Sharx SCNC2900 Webcam | WeatherCat 3.3 | Supportive Wife
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #106 on: December 30, 2015, 11:31:07 PM »
I don't think I have any 900 MHz devices. If I do, they aren't doing anything at 2:30 in the morning.
Blick


Felix

  • Gale
  • ****
  • Posts: 439
  • Station Details: Davis VP-2 Plus, FARS, WeatherLink IP. Sharx cams.
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #107 on: December 30, 2015, 11:39:45 PM »
Part 97.303

     A:   902.000 - 904.000   Non-Multilateration
     B:   904.000 - 909.750   Multilateration
     C:   909.750 - 919.750   Non-Multilateration
     D:   919.750 - 921.750   Multilateration and Non-Multilateration
     E:   921.750 - 927.250   Multilateration
     F:   927.250 - 927.500   Narrow band associated with sub-band E
     G:   927.500 - 927.750   Narrow band associated with sub-band D
     H:   927.750 - 928.000   Narrow band associated with sub-band B

Blicj11

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
    • EW3808
    • KUTHEBER6
    • Timber Lakes Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus | WeatherLinkIP Data Logger | iMac (2019), 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9, 40 GB RAM, macOS Ventura 13.6 | Sharx SCNC2900 Webcam | WeatherCat 3.3 | Supportive Wife
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #108 on: December 30, 2015, 11:42:21 PM »
Felix, you are the man! Thanks.
Blick


Bull Winkus

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
    • EW0095
    • KARHORSE2
    • WU for Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas
  • Station Details: Davis Wireless Vantage Pro 2, iMac 24"
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #109 on: December 31, 2015, 05:15:57 PM »
I don't get it. What does it all mean?

Quote
Part 97.303

     A:   902.000 - 904.000   Non-Multilateration
     B:   904.000 - 909.750   Multilateration
     C:   909.750 - 919.750   Non-Multilateration
     D:   919.750 - 921.750   Multilateration and Non-Multilateration
     E:   921.750 - 927.250   Multilateration
     F:   927.250 - 927.500   Narrow band associated with sub-band E
     G:   927.500 - 927.750   Narrow band associated with sub-band D
     H:   927.750 - 928.000   Narrow band associated with sub-band B
Herb

elagache

  • Global Moderator
  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 6494
    • DW3835
    • KCAORIND10
    • Canebas Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro-2, Mac mini (2018), macOS 10.14.3, WeatherCat 3
Davis interfering with itself? . . . (Re: da' darn "mellar-drama")
« Reply #110 on: December 31, 2015, 11:46:33 PM »
Dear Blick, Felix, Herb, and WeatherCat Davis troubleshooters,

Last night just before I was about to retire for the usual dose of Boob Tube . . . . .   My darn Weather Envoy lost its connection once more.  However, this time I caught it almost immediately after it started.

Using my new trick, I switched the ID to something other than the retransmission ID I'm using and put it immediately back.  Within a minute, the communications was working once more.

That seems to rule out an outside source of interference.  If it was something external, it stopped almost as fast as it started since I caught almost as soon as it started.  That make me think about what Herb said with respect to the Davis IDs:

So my guess: the individual channels are probably mapped digitally onto the same frequency using Davis's proprietary communications protocol.

Because I had so much trouble in the past, I had done something that perhaps was the cause of my problems rather than a solution.  I broadcast from the ISS on ID #2.  Then I rebroadcast that information from the console to the Weather Envoy on #3.  In principle, there should be no need for this rebroadcasting, the ISS is close enough to the Envoy so that I should be able to pick up the signal directly without the "boost."

At the time, I didn't see any harm because by rebroadcasting I thought I was only making sure the signal was good and strong.  However, Davis may not expect to have the original signal (on #2) and the rebroadcast signal (on #3) arriving at a receiver at comparable strength.  Normally, Davis data is always different, and their technique to determine signal and reject noise may rely on that.  If the signal on #2 and #3 are the same, could this cause the Envoy to effectively "become confused?"

It is easy enough to check this hypothesis out.  I turned off retransmiting on the console and I am using ID #2 only, so that both the console and the Envoy get their data directly from the ISS alone - no potential interference.

So far so good . . . .

Stay tuned . . . .

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Felix

  • Gale
  • ****
  • Posts: 439
  • Station Details: Davis VP-2 Plus, FARS, WeatherLink IP. Sharx cams.
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #111 on: January 01, 2016, 11:06:21 AM »
So-ooo, it's sure starting to sound like an interference (vs. hardware) problem all along as many of our armchair sleuths have believed. I'd never questioned why you were boosting the signal since I'm not familiar with your layout and the distances involved. This seems to be the most logical explanation I've heard thus far.

And Herb...

Blick had asked what frequencies the eight Davis station IDs corresponded to. The FCC breaks up the 33-centimeter (900 MHz) band into eight discrete freq ranges which are used for everything from cordless phones to garage door openers to TV remote controls to amateur radio controllers to you name it.

And it appears that Davis likely uses all eight freq ranges. You can see why Blick was told by Davis techs to use the higher numbered IDs when troubleshooting (narrower range...but less forgiving if there is oscillator drift).

Blicj11

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
    • EW3808
    • KUTHEBER6
    • Timber Lakes Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus | WeatherLinkIP Data Logger | iMac (2019), 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9, 40 GB RAM, macOS Ventura 13.6 | Sharx SCNC2900 Webcam | WeatherCat 3.3 | Supportive Wife
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #112 on: January 01, 2016, 07:07:26 PM »
Interesting development. I'm not using an Envoy, just transmitting wirelessly to the VP2 console, but I see the same results when it looses the connection. When I change the ID on the console and then change it back, it immediately connects and resumes.
Blick


elagache

  • Global Moderator
  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 6494
    • DW3835
    • KCAORIND10
    • Canebas Weather
  • Station Details: Davis Vantage Pro-2, Mac mini (2018), macOS 10.14.3, WeatherCat 3
Okay after 24 . . .(Re: Darn "mellar-drama" continues!!)
« Reply #113 on: January 01, 2016, 11:06:54 PM »
Dear Felix, Blick, and WeatherCat subscribers to this darn "mellar-drama,"

Well once more not enough time to tell, but so far so good . . . .

Cheers, Edouard

Bull Winkus

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
    • EW0095
    • KARHORSE2
    • WU for Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas
  • Station Details: Davis Wireless Vantage Pro 2, iMac 24"
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #114 on: January 02, 2016, 05:19:09 PM »
Thanks Felix! ? So, those are the FCC's bands; not Davis's channels? Is there some correlation? I would expect that spread-spectrum frequency-hopping (FHSS) would be all over the place under digital control.

Also, Multilateration has to do with navigation and geo-location, so I would expect Davis to be restricted to channels for Non-Multilateration. That's only A, C and D, unless the rules for FHSS is different. [Edit: Just noticed that all of the band is shown as Government only. FHSS must be different.]

Quote
Part 97.303

     A:   902.000 - 904.000   Non-Multilateration
     B:   904.000 - 909.750   Multilateration
     C:   909.750 - 919.750   Non-Multilateration
     D:   919.750 - 921.750   Multilateration and Non-Multilateration
     E:   921.750 - 927.250   Multilateration
     F:   927.250 - 927.500   Narrow band associated with sub-band E
     G:   927.500 - 927.750   Narrow band associated with sub-band D
     H:   927.750 - 928.000   Narrow band associated with sub-band B

[Added] Link to Wiki article on FHSS.

Link to full image below.

Also, ISM Band Wiki link.

 [cheers1]
Herb

xairbusdriver

  • Storm
  • *****
  • Posts: 3126
    • EW7115 (E7115)
    • KTNGERMA20
    • Mid-South Weather
  • Station Details: Davis VP2 wireless + remote Anemometer/2014 Mac min - 10.15.7/WC 3.0.5
Re: *Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!
« Reply #115 on: January 02, 2016, 07:49:10 PM »
We had/have serious concerns at church where a lot of wireless mics are used (lots of professional performers use them, also). Unfortunately, wireless mic users are a niche group compared to cell phone service, so there's little security for purchasers of these kinds of microphones. Even adding Davis to the group (even though they are using different freqs) wouldn't add any real power compared to AT&T/Verizon/et al. :(
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system