*Sniff* . . da' darn "mellar-drama" continues!!

[elagache]

Dear WeatherCat subscribers to da' "mellar-drama" that stubbornly refuses to go away, 

It sure is hard to believe, but after all the changes I did to my weather station setup, I'm still getting very strange sensor errors.  Another episode happened this morning.  Here is the WeatherCat status from this morning:



Here is the live data view:



Finally here is a graph that illustrates the period of the outage:



I had a similar episode 2 days ago.  I hoped it was a signal strength issue and turned on retransmission on my console to boost the signal strength.  Clearly that wasn't the problem.

I'm trying another tack.  One of the very frustrating aspects of these apparent sensor outages is that they always happen early in the morning - quite often shortly after midnight.  Now I would much prefer not to have to stay up every night hoping to catch one of these events to try to troubleshoot it while it is occurring.  If the time of day has something to do with the problem that would suggest perhaps the Weather Envoy is to blame somehow.  It has never been replaced and it has a clock so presumably it is possible it could have some sort of failure related to time of day.  I've replaced the temperature/humidity probe, so that shouldn't be the problem.  I've changed the ISS transmitter board since this started happen.  It seems unlike two different boards would behave in exactly the same way.

I have moved the console next to my computer and plugged the data logger into that.  I'll see if that has any effect.  I double-checked the reception.  95% of the packets from the transmitter are getting received, so it is a reliable connection even if the distance is pushing the transmission range of a Davis station.  The signal strength is 30 on a scale from 20 to 60, so it definitely on the low side.  But even so, strong enough to keep data coming in.

I double-checked the 123 battery.  It is certainly not discharging wildly like before.  However, I did notice something a bit odd.  The battery was replaced on February 20th - 2 weeks ago.  Two days ago I checked the voltage and it was the standard 3.23 Volts of a new battery.  Today it was 3.22 Volts.  What is odd about that is we haven't had any power outages, so that battery should be sitting there completely unused.  Now a hundredth of a volt is pushing the limits of the tester, but still, why would the tester show any change in 2 days?  It isn't enough to mean anything but still unexpected.

I've given up on the crowd on WXforum, so that's resource is gone.  Calling Davis technical support isn't an option until I can collect some evidence using the console alone.  Davis technical support cannot provide any technical support if a third party software package is involved - of course.   So I'm really marooned at this point.

So if anybody has a bright idea . . .   I sure would appreciate it!

Edouard

[Bull Winkus]

Finally here is a graph that illustrates the period of the outage:

Edouard, is that the only chart parameter that drops out?

[elagache]

Howdy Herb and WeatherCat troubleshooters,

Edouard, is that the only chart parameter that drops out?

Unfortunately not.  If you check the data it is a real outage and the temperature data is remains locked at the last received value.  When the outage ends there is a abrupt change in the the temperature reading.  All the graphs related to temperature are effected.  I use that graph for convenience because it locked on a 24 hour day and is at the top of my screen.

On the plus side, I've gone two days with the console and no problems.  Too early to tell but at least no more problems thus far.

Cheers, Edouard

[xairbusdriver]

Speaking as a complete 'noobie', that signal strength value could be a useful number. I doubt that that value is recorded anywhere. It would be really helpful if you could no that value the next time you have the problem. If there is a coating of dew on the house, that might even be enough to cause the signal level to fall even further. Again, I'm not even an owner of this hardware, but I never let ignorance keep me from offering advice! As I understand the equipment, there is a different channel for each of the sensors. I'm not sure if this communications is really two-way or not. When data is transmitted to a receiver, the best methods require an acknowledgement from the receiving equipment. That is more expensive, of course, and Davis (nor any other 'weather station' source) may not use that method; they may just broadcast 'in the blind' every few seconds and expect the majority of the data to be picked up. However, if Davis actually looks for a 'received data' message it may simply lock out that channel to avoid wasting energy. I may be over-thinking and assigning 'professional-level' capabilities to this 'consumer-level' hardware. I am also operating on memory that you have reported seeing "invalid" data from other sensors, also; not just temperature. Since spending other peoples money is a common solution here how about buying a 'repeater' box and mount it on the outside wall closest to the main station? <Part #07626> is only $200! Sounds cheap to me, especially using your money! 

Perhaps more useful suggestion, would be to create an AppleScript that could alert you with a sound when this happens. I know I've read that WeatherCat has great AS capabilities, but I have no idea if this kind of monitoring is possible. OTOH, the Developer seems to be very helpful, might be worth a note to ask about this kind of monitoring.

Whatever, the cause, I sure hope you can discover and correct it soon.

[Bull Winkus]

I'm thinking (uhoh) that your best clue might be the consistency in the time of occurrence, as you originally thought. However, interpreting it as a temperature trigger is still open to question. A cold solder joint could be affected by temperature in such a consistent manner. Or, there might be an unrelated high powered harmonic frequency causing interference, such as an illegal ham radio or CB radio being used at the same time. It might even be a telemetry signal or cell tower or experimental radio communications signal being operated covertly only at night. I would keep going, but it's starting to sound like alien invasion conspiracies, so I'll leave it at that. Look around your neighborhood. Any new antennas gone up since this started?
 

[elagache]

Dear xairbusdriver, Herb, and WeatherCat station troubleshooters,

Speaking as a complete 'noobie', that signal strength value could be a useful number. I doubt that that value is recorded anywhere. It would be really helpful if you could no that value the next time you have the problem.

If the problem starts again, I guess I'll have to try to arrange to get waken up so that I can troubleshoot it live.  However, I'm doubtful it is a real signal strength problem because I had set my console to work as a repeater.  That effectively reduced the distance the signal had to travel by 1/2.  The next morning it still happened.

Perhaps more useful suggestion, would be to create an AppleScript that could alert you with a sound when this happens.

Actually I wrote an AppleScript that can do this already.  You can learn more about it in this thread:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1039.0

Unfortunately, these AppleScripts are in desperate need of a maintenance release and after that a complete rewrite.  However, I just don't have time for that.

I could rig something to change the sensor error alert to make an audible noise.  Sure hope it doesn't come to that, I have enough trouble sleeping as it is!

I'm thinking (uhoh) that your best clue might be the consistency in the time of occurrence, as you originally thought. However, interpreting it as a temperature trigger is still open to question. A cold solder joint could be affected by temperature in such a consistent manner.

I'm reasonably certain the errors aren't because of the temperature/humidity probe because it is brand new.  I replaced it when I moved the station transmitter under the deck.  The Davis Technical support guys were very clear that the temperature/humidity probe should never have the data cable extended.  Alas, I didn't know that 5 years ago when put the station up.  It worked fine until this past October.  Since I knew that was one feature of my station that was out of Davis specifications, I decided to move the station transmitter so that it was next to my temperature/humidity probe and bought a second probe to guarantee I had a solid data cable with nothing outside of Davis specifications.

Or, there might be an unrelated high powered harmonic frequency causing interference, such as an illegal ham radio or CB radio being used at the same time.
. . . .
Look around your neighborhood. Any new antennas gone up since this started?

It is possible that there is some sort of radio frequency interference.  I haven't noticed any sort of new antennas or stuff like that.  Most of the people around here are working families with kids, so these aren't the sort of folks who are likely to be up in the middle of the night when another workday is coming.  I located another Davis station closer to my station than I was previously aware of.  But it is around 1000 feet away and I've changed the station transmitter IDs several times, so I don't think that's the problem.

I've gone 3 days without a problem using the station console.  It would be really strange, but the Weather Envoy is the only thing I haven't replaced in all the changes I've made.  I'll just have to keep an eye on it.

Thanks for the thoughts though! 

Cheers, Edouard 

[Blicj11]

I've gone 3 days without a problem using the station console.

Progress! Glad to hear it.

[WCDev]

Good news on the console then? U/S Envoy?

[elagache]

Howdy Stu and WeatherCat subscribers to this darn "mellar-drama"

Good news on the console then? U/S Envoy?

Well, so far using the console instead of the Envoy has eliminated any sensor errors for the past 6 days.  That makes me already tempted to just by another Envoy and hope that's the problem.  Alas, I went back to the ISS transmitter board and the battery voltage dropped by another hundredth to 3.21 Volts.  That's nothing, except for the fact according to the Davis technical support folks, the battery shouldn't be touched at all when plugged into AC adapter.  So . . . . . .

I suspect Davis has some real "issuez" with the power switching logic on their transmitter boards.  I have the original ISS board from 5 years ago installed in the 6382 enclosure to transmit the instrument data at the moment.  As part of this mess I bought a new ISS transmitter board last fall. I'm going to have Davis take a look at it under warranty.  That board discharged a battery from 3.23 Volts to 3.13 Volts in 18 days, all when plugged into the AC.  Perhaps Davis can figure out what this board is actually doing without costing me anything more than shipping it over to them.

Oh well, this "mellar-drama" sure has staying power . . . . . 

Cheers, Edouard

[WCDev]

I think I'd give it a few more days before shelling out for another Envoy. I don't suppose Davis could service it?

I'm also surprised the battery is draining when plugged into the mains. Having said that, console batteries also lose their voltage even though plugged into the mains adaptor, so maybe they have some weird power management going on...

[elagache]

Howdy Stu and subscribers to this endless "mellar-drama" . . . .

I think I'd give it a few more days before shelling out for another Envoy. I don't suppose Davis could service it?

I suppose Davis might be able to service it, but it is at least 4 years old so the warranty is long gone.  I just did some quick price checking.  At ProVantage.com the Envoy is $116.06.  Scaled Instruments is a bit more expensive at: $122.00.  If I have to pay a Davis tech to work on this thing am I going to save any money?

I'm also surprised the battery is draining when plugged into the mains. Having said that, console batteries also lose their voltage even though plugged into the mains adaptor, so maybe they have some weird power management going on...

I decided to do some more testing to see if I could get to the bottom of this.  First, I removed the battery out of the ISS transmitter.  The console reported the low battery but the ISS continued to transmit just fine.  I then removed the AC adapter and waited until the station stopped transmitting.  It took about 15 minutes which is a little odd, this is the 5 year old station transmitter which appeared to have a dead super-capacitor.  Clearly that sucker isn't completely dead yet.

Finally the ISS stopped transmitting and the console indicated no data and WeatherCat started to report sensor errors.  I have been told that if the AC adapter was plugged in the ISS board makes absolutely no use of the battery.  So I decided to test this by plugging the AC adapter, but not replacing the battery.  After 25 minutes, the console had still not managed to establish communications with the station.  Getting a little nervous, I put the battery back, almost immediately communications was restored.

Ah Ha!  So it has to be bad AC adapter - right?

That seemed really unlikely, those adapters are simple and tough.  So to test that hypothesis, I left the AC adapter plugged in, but once more removed the battery.  Again the station reported low battery on the ISS transmitter, but the data kept coming.  The station has been running for over 1/2 hour on the AC adapter alone.  That is conclusive evidence that is it sufficient to power the ISS transmitter after all.  Without the AC adapter, it went down in than 15 minutes.  So . . . . . . . .  

So to return to Stu's initial hypothesis: they have some weird power management going on...

In the voice of Bugs Bunny: "Mmmmm, it's a possibility!" . . .

I think I'll need to get Davis to take a look at one of their ISS transmitter boards!

Cheers, Edouard 

[Blicj11]

If I have to pay a Davis tech to work on this thing am I going to save any money?

Ask them how much they would charge to look at it.

It sounds like you are inching closer to the finish line on this.

[Randall75]

Hi Edouard
 Is your Davis Cabled or wireless?




cheers
 

[elagache]

Dear Blick, Randall, and WeatherCat station troubleshooters,

If I have to pay a Davis tech to work on this thing am I going to save any money?

Ask them how much they would charge to look at it.

Sure I can ask, I have to call them anyway to get a RMA number for the ISS transmitter board.

It sounds like you are inching closer to the finish line on this.

Honestly, I'm not sure.  There is something - really wrong - about any device that manages to use battery power when plugged into a steady source of AC.  We had no power outages during the 18 days when the ISS board managed to consume 0.1 volts out of a 123 battery.

Is your Davis Cabled or wireless?

It is wireless.  If it was cabled I couldn't have the problems I'm struggling with.  It is the station transmitter that is having the power supply switching "abnormalities."

Edouard

[Bull Winkus]

We had no power outages during the 18 days when the ISS board managed to consume 0.1 volts out of a 123 battery.

Perhaps the electron were just settling in the container. If so, then a warning label might be in order for these batteries I'm pushin'!