Author Topic: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .  (Read 27617 times)

elagache

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Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« on: October 20, 2014, 09:53:14 PM »
Dear WeatherCat subscribers to my Davis station "mellar-drama."

Sufferin' succotash, I got another station sensor error this morning.  Once more it was the remote temperature and humidity sensor that had errors.  Alas, it happened at exactly the same time, early morning, the coldest part of the day.  That gave me a sinking feeling.

So the first thing I did was check the voltage of the 123 battery in the ISS.  Heavy sigh, it had dropped from 3.23 volts to 3.1 volts and I replaced that battery 6 days ago.

I did a little checking around and the most likely culprit is the super capacitor that allows the ISS to store solar power.  They are dirt cheap, but I don't have the skills to solder on a circuit board like the one in the ISS.  So I punted and ordered a new ISS circuit board from Scaled Instruments.  Given my symptoms, replacing that circuit board should finally get rid of this problem once and for all.

Anybody have some other thoughts that I should consider?

Maintaining a weather station is so much . . . . fun!?!???  . . .

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Bull Winkus

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 01:16:55 AM »
From 3.23 to 3.1 in 6 days, in my estimate, would not be cause for alarm. The IR drop from a fully charged battery is not linear. That last bit of topping off when charging the battery is packing those little electrons under pressure into a very crowed subway car. When you first open the door, the little buggers can't wait to get out of there. Later it gets a little more orderly and as the voltage drops a little, the circus in your instruments slows down a bit. Also, the first ones out of the subway head straight for those little resistors, capacitors and chokes to fill the rides before the lines start forming.
Herb

elagache

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Howdy Herb and WeatherCat Davis station troubleshooters,

From 3.23 to 3.1 in 6 days, in my estimate, would not be cause for alarm.

Well, as far as I understand how a Davis station works - yes it is.  The super-capacitor is supposed to store up enough power so that the station can run 24/7 without using the battery at all.  We've only had 2 cloudy days in the past 6 and hey, this is California, so there is plenty of solar power available.  So this battery shouldn't have been drained at all.

Further evidence to back up my pessimistic conclusion is that this is the second time I've had sensor error problems.  The first time was on October 11th.  Once more replacing the battery caused the problem to go away for a few days.  Two identical appearing events in less than 2 weeks basically rules out bad batteries.

 ;) . . . . . . Besides it is all your fault Herb!  In the old days I only bought 123 batteries in a 2 pack.  Now that you've convinced me to buy them in an 8-pack, there are plenty of them in the house.  I suppose my ISS saw all that bounty and became a gluten!!  . . . .  [lol2]

Oh well, my ISS circuit board has already shipped.  I hope it will arrive before I run out of 123 batteries!!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 07:40:35 AM »
Lol! OK, Edouard. Sitting on the edge of my seat, to see how this drama reaches its climatic end!
Herb

elagache

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Another battery bites da' dust (Re: ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . . )
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 10:28:02 PM »
Howdy Herb and WeatherCat Davis station caregivers,

Lol! OK, Edouard. Sitting on the edge of my seat, to see how this drama reaches its climatic end!

Well, this morning I got another station sensor error just like I got on Monday.  So it seems that the super-capacitor is consuming a 123 battery every 4 days or so.  Worst still, I decided to have the ISS replacement circuit board shipped by the post office.  Normally that doesn't take more than a week and I placed the order on Monday.  It won't arrive until next Wednesday.  So I might burn two more 123 batteries before I can replace the circuit board.  That certainly would have paid the difference between UPS and the post office rates.

Oh well, . . . .

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

elagache

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New ISS circuit board didn't help (Re: ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . . )
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 08:49:17 PM »
Dear WeatherCat Davis station troubleshooters,

My poor weather station continues to suffer from da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome.  I replaced the ISS circuit board and enclosure on Monday and to my disgust once more I was getting sensor errors from my anemometer and remote temperature-humidity sensor.  As before this was happening in the pre-dawn period where the battery is coldest and there is no solar power to help out.  I pulled the battery and replaced it.  Just like every battery before it, the 123 battery dropped from 3.23 volts to 3.15 volts in just 5 days.

Since the ISS circuitry is completely new it can be eliminated as a suspect, so what's left?  Could the solar panel have gone flakey somehow?  The only other possibility is that the sensors are now a greater drain.  I checked the long cable run from the temperature-humidity sensor under the deck - no signs of damage.  I took apart the shield and inspected the sensor - it looks brand new and I haven't touched it since installation.

I think I'm licked and will call Davis tech support on Monday to see what they suggest.  I also started another thread on WXForum:

http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=24235.0

If any of you get a clever idea on this one, please send it my way!!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 03:18:49 AM »
Sorry to hear it, Edouard. Finding obscure hardware bugs can make a young man go bald quick.

All I see to suggest is, again, 3.15v is still a very good battery. I'd look for other causes of the error than battery drainage issues. I've tested my batteries with the Fluke both going in and coming out. When the batteries are done, that voltage is near or below 2v. Perhaps you're getting radio interference.

I hope Davis can tell you something that helps!

Buena suerte, buddy.
Herb

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2014, 01:43:44 PM »
If I remember right Edouard, you are connected to the computer via an Envoy? As a test, can you replace it with a console? (Just to completely eliminate that bit of the system).

elagache

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Second bad board? (Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . . )
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2014, 10:35:33 PM »
Howdy Herb, Stu, and WeatherCat fans,

Sorry to hear it, Edouard. Finding obscure hardware bugs can make a young man go bald quick.

All I see to suggest is, again, 3.15v is still a very good battery. I'd look for other causes of the error than battery drainage issues. I've tested my batteries with the Fluke both going in and coming out. When the batteries are done, that voltage is near or below 2v. Perhaps you're getting radio interference.

I have gotten some replies from the folks on WXForum and the latest diagnosis is that most likely the super capacitor on the second ISS circuit board from Scaled Instruments is also bad.  Certainly an unexpected fluke, but it is the most plausible explanation.  Herb you may be correct that the batteries aren't dead, but what appears to be the problem is with that super capacitor not charging up properly it is demanding more current than the 123 batteries can provide.  After 4-5 days of that load, the batteries can't supply the load.  Of course you see the first symptoms at the point when the battery is under the most stress: before dawn when temperatures are coldest and there is no solar assist.

Nobody on the WXForum saw any reason to suspect the sensors and I took down my temperature-humidity probe and it looks brand new.  I also checked the voltage on the solar panel and according to the folks of WXForum once more, it is performance within the expected range.

The suggestion over there was for me to contact Scaled Instruments and see what they think.  If they agree with the diagnosis and agree to replace the board perhaps that's the most hopeful solution to be found.

If I remember right Edouard, you are connected to the computer via an Envoy? As a test, can you replace it with a console? (Just to completely eliminate that bit of the system).

Well, yes I could and did that when all these problems first started up.  Eventually the console also ran into trouble.  In addition, WeatherCat is reporting specific sensor errors.  The last time WeatherCat was reporting that both the temperature-humidity probe and anemometer were generating sensor errors.  The rain gauge wasn't reporting any errors though.  If the Envoy was able to receive the details of the sensor errors, that would seem to rule out the Envoy as the cause.  So I really think the problem is on the ISS end of things.  If the diagnosis is correct, I'm just having a run of really bad luck.

Oh well, .. . .

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

elagache

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Happy ending - I hope!! (Re: ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . . )
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2014, 11:15:44 PM »
Dear WeatherCat viewers of my ISS battery eatin' soap opera,

This morning I got in touch with Ryan Wilhour, the owner of Scaled Instruments.  I sent him a link to the WXForum discussion that concluded the most likely cause of my troubles was a second failure of the super-capacitor in the ISS circuit board he had sold me.  He not only agreed with the diagnosis, but offered me a most generous solution.  If I shipped out the broken board he sold me via something UPS which has a tracking number, he would send me a new board via priority mail at his own expense!!  No deposit required!

I put back the original 5 year board so that I wouldn't lose any data in the transition.  It was very cranky, but finally it started transmitting data correctly.  I got the other board out via UPS this afternoon and Mr. Wilhour promised to ship out the new board this evening!  So with any luck at all I won't be burning too many more 123 batteries!  I've already had to start using the second 8-pack!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

P.S.  ;) . . . . I hope that Herb finds some other sucker to help boost his battery commissions!! . . .  [lol2]

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Re: Happy ending - I hope!! (Re: ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . . )
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 12:03:13 AM »
I hope that Herb finds some other sucker to help boost his battery commissions!!

Ha ha! I know he could use the cash to replace his ISS that the brainless and heartless eejits stole from him.

As for you, I hope this nails it for you.
Blick


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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 05:42:35 PM »
Everything crossed :)

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2014, 06:30:35 AM »
Shoot, Edouard? if I did get a commission from Amazon it would likely be paid in batteries. First batch, I'll send 'em to ya!

Blick, It's getting close to time to fix my mangled ISS (actually, it's just a rain gauge at the present). I sold some stock in my company and will be calling Davis soon.

Edouard, there may be a drought, but look out for inflation in Calie's economy. I'm about to send 'em (Davis) some money.
Herb

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 12:42:18 PM »
Edouard, well, I hope the new board does the job.  But if I may offer another possible solution??..

I'm in Indiana and from Octember to January, we are socked in with cloudy skies, and my ISS gets very little solar charge time.  I am also running an old ISS that has been out there for over 8 years now.  I don't have any extra sensors on the ISS and it's one of the wireless versions.  I also have had issues this time of year, or rather as soon as the night time temps start to fall under 20?F, which still won't be for another month or so.  This Winter is predicted to be very cold with little precipitation, so I'm looking at the battery freezing again.

A brief history of batteries:  My Uncle, who worked for P.R.Mallory (they became Duracell) in research and development from WWII until he retired in the late 90s was always a good source of information about batteries and what they did, specifically how they did in different environments.  He always told me to check the environmental specifications of the batteries I used if there was a problem with outdoor use.  These are lithium batteries and this type of battery was designed to work with a generally fixed constant low current drain over a very long time period, perfect for the ISS as a rule.

Over the years I have ordered or bought locally the 123 batteries from wherever I could find them.  And usually each time I would end up with a different manufacturer's product.  So here's what I found looking back, a lot of battery manufacturers have a lot of differing temperature specifications and only a few are made with sub-freezing temperature specifications.  And some just don't hold up in the cold.  The most expensive 123s I found didn't hold up, and the cheapest didn't hold up when they got cold.  The voltage drop often fell below 2v on a brand new battery after it got frozen once.  The best battery I have found was the Duracel Procell PL123BK (12pack from Amazon, and usually inexpensive).  The operational temperature range for these batteries is -20?C to 75?C (-4?F to 167?F).  So far these batteries have outlasted anything I've used (including the direct replacement from Davis).  You just need to pay attention to the manufacturers temperature curves. 

I used to swap out my ISS batteries in December, but so far, haven't for the last three years on the Duracells.  Time will tell.  Also, when you change your batteries, wipe off the battery terminals with a little bit of alcohol to clean the contacts, it helps a lot.

My view on things, hope it helps a little.

Good Luck

Doc
Take care and have fun!  Slainte Mah!

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Re: Da' dreaded ISS battery "eatin'" syndrome . . . .
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 05:58:18 PM »
Thanks for the info Doc.

I have a question about the operating range of the 3 volt batteries. Testing them without a load (at the store before you buy, or at home before you put them into the ISS) what is the acceptable range of voltage? I have a Nuon battery on my shelf that I picked up for US$1 somewhere that tests at 3.15 volts. Should I be tossing that one our before it even gets a chance to be used?
Blick