Trixology
Weather => Weather Hardware/Measurement => Topic started by: Steve on March 14, 2012, 09:12:27 PM
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I'm cross-posting this from the MacWeather.net forum, as it will be intreated with WeatherCat on my screen and web page.
Good news! Back in January, our Avon-Weather station was featured in the Davis Instruments newsletter. Since then, I was contacted by Davis' PR firm about how we use our station and what we do with the data we gather. Gardening was a big part of the reason we bought a station with the flexibility of the Davis Vantage Pro 2.
Fast forward two months, and today I received a shipping notice from Davis. They are sending us a Wireless Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temperature Station for us to review! They included a soil temp sensor, soil moisture sensor, and a leaf wetness sensor. Plus, a Weatherlink and a Vantage Pro2 Console. I'm not even opening those, as I already have what I need for communicating with my existing system. http://davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06345
This will allow us to measure soil temperature and moisture levels for spring garden prep and planting. We'll post information as we get the system up and running.
Watch this space! :)
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Congratulations Steve!
Word of warning - don't pull the cable on the soil moisture sensor too hard - it's just cost me ?69 [banghead]
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Howdy Steve, Stu, and WeatherCat fans,
Word of warning - don't pull the cable on the soil moisture sensor too hard - it's just cost me ?69 [banghead]
Is there any lessons from that which a prospective soil moisture sensor owner should glean? Would it be a good idea to put into wrap a bit of steel wire or cable to allow for extracting of the sensor without pulling on the signal cables?
Just a thought . . . . .
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Thanks Stu. I'll heed your warning.
It is *supposed* to be glued into a pice of PVC pile to protect it. I wonder if everyone does that? (http://www.morrisgarage.com/misc/stuff/innocent.gif)
(https://img.skitch.com/20120315-kw6mynemb1u9ywgnr64una9hx.jpg)
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Howdy Steve, Stu, and WeatherCat soil monitoring folks,
It is *supposed* to be glued into a pice of PVC pile to protect it. I wonder if everyone does that? (http://www.morrisgarage.com/misc/stuff/innocent.gif)
;) Oh the shame!! Steve, how could you!! Reading da' instructions!! [lol2]
On da' other hand . . . . . .
Word of warning - don't pull the cable on the soil moisture sensor too hard - it's just cost me ?69
A section of PVC pipe and some glue is a lot cheaper than ?69!! [banghead]
Perhaps I should try to unload some PVC on this forum!! ;)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Just don't have a 'cat' that likes the smell of PVC and tries to dig it up [lol2]
JC
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Lol, yeah right, I'm getting the message [spin]
However, in my defence, mine is planted under the lawn (in a trench) :)
As you can see from the attached pic, my new one was 'planted' yesterday and is currently very wet.
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Stu,
Is there any preferred installation location for the leaf wetness sensor itself? There's nothing in the manual, and I wrote Davis yesterday asking, but haven't heard back. I didn't know if there's an optimum height, pointed toward or away from the sun, etc.
Thanks,
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Honest answer is I don't know.
Mine is mounted 6 foot above grass facing away from the sun - you can see from the above pic that this morning there was a dew forming, which evaporated pretty quickly once the sun came up.
Hope this helps,
Stu.
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Thanks,
I kinda thought away from the sun made the most sense, as the leaves on all but the southeast most plants would still be shaded.
That's what I'll do!
Thanks
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I got a reply from Davis a bit ago.
Mount it anywhere nearby that is open to the air, on a post or U-bolted to a mast.
The idea is that it is a faux "Leaf". Mount it so that the overnight dew will collect upon it like a typical leaf.
I would "point" it to the north, so that it will be slower to evaporate, like some or many of the leaves on your plants, which may be in the shade.
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As an amateur photographer, I tend to document all my hobby how-to projects. I know I'm not the first person here to install a Davis Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station, and I'm sure there are a lot of folks who can interpret the information gleaned from it a lot better than I will. And since Davis sent this to me to review, what better way than for those of you not familiar with the station to watch as I learn. Larger images can be seen on my SmugMug gallery. (CLICK HERE) (http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/21956107_KrB5Rd) Click the thumbnail to see a larger image, and then click the large image to see a full screen version.
I'm cross-posting this on the MacWeather.net and WXforum.net forum, and portions will be on my Facebook page.
Anyway, I'll be like the tech guys and do an "unboxing" thingy here.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-QfTPvJq/0/XL/DSC0003-XL.jpg)
Here are all the pieces parts still in their package.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-K54dGbp/0/XL/DSC0004-XL.jpg)
All the parts unwrapped except the WeatherLink data logger and VP2 Console. I'll use my setup, and add the Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station on another channel.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-RVQKCCx/0/XL/DSC0006-XL.jpg)
Here is the complete station set up to test functioning and reception. On the lid is the Leaf Wetness sensor, the green sensor is the Soil Moisture Sensor, and the probe with the black wire is the Soil Temperature sensor. Plugging the Soil Temperature and Moisture sensors on the same channel (in this phot the Soil Moisture is mistakenly in #4, but I moved it to #1 for testing) allows the Soil Moisture to use the Soil Temperature in its calculation. If they are not on the same channel, the Soil Moisture is calculated assuming that the temperature of the soil is 75˚F.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-FVrbTQ5/0/XL/DSC0011-XL.jpg)
I mounted the Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station transmitter on the same post as my VP2 ISS is mounted. I set the transmitter as Station #3, and added it to my VP2 Console and, using WeatherLink for Mac, set the Weather Envoy to use Station #3
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-dzsmhzr/0/XL/DSC0013-XL.jpg)
No photos yet, but I've temporarily mounted the Leaf Wetness sensor on a steel rod driven into the ground beside my ISS post. The U-bolt is too small to fit the post everything else is mounted on. I think I'll use a 1" galvanized post and mount both the transmitter and Leaf Wetness se?or on the same post. That way I won't have wires to run from one to the other. I temporarily stuck the Soil Temperature sensor in the ground in the raised bed garden plot barely visible in the last photo above. I'm also "conditioning" the Soil Wetness sensor, as described in the installation instructions, by soaking, drying, then soaking again before planting it in the soil. I have some schedule 40 1/2" PVC, but the walls are too thick to insert the Soil Moisture sensor as shown in the manual. I'll drill it out a bit until it fits.
My soil here is very sandy, as we live on an ancient beach. All of our gardens and raised beds have been amended with a *lot* of compost, manure, and peat moss. In the raised beds, I can easily stick my hand down a foot into the soil, so it drains quickly. I might add a second Soil Temperature and Moisture sensor and bury them deeper in one of the other beds where we grow perennial crops, such as strawberries, grapes, rhubarb, or raspberries. The soil here is less disturbed and might give a better indication of the condition of the soil in the rest of our perennial flower beds and yard.
As I noted above, I added the Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station as Station #3 on the VP2 Console and WeatherLink. While I was at it, I swapped Station #1 and #2, making the ISS Station #2 and the Wireless Anemometer Transmitter Station #1. This will take advantage of the more frequent readings of Station #1 for the wind, which is the most changeable.
I'm using the public beta of Trixology's WeatherCat (http://www.trixology.com) (Formerly Lightsoft Weather Center) on my Mac to view the data from the Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station. The Leaf Wetness has been a flatline at zero since installing, but worked fine in pre-testing. I'll see if we have dew in the morning. The soil temperature was 62˚F when I installed it late this afternoon, and has dropped to 59˚F here at 10:30 pm. That's just amazing, as out ground is normally frozen solid this time of year!
(https://img.skitch.com/20120316-ri6umr4pg84pgwji159phtwbt7.jpg)
That's all I've got right now. I'll get more done tomorrow and add some more photos. Thanks for reading along, and feel free to comment or offer advices.
Steve
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Howdy Steve and WeatherCat fans,
;) Golly how thorough can you get! About the only thing you didn't photograph is the delivery truck and driver!! [lol2]
Well, this will take me a little time to digest . . . . . right now I'm still coping with da' storm. [rain2]
However, thank you for going to such care to document all this! [tup]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
P.S. Why didn't you take photos of how you embedded the soil sensor in a PVC pipe? You did put the sensor in a PVC pipe didn't ya? ;)
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Indeed, a nice write-up. Thanks Steve!
Stu.
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Thanks guys. Over the years, I've sort of acquired a reputation for the thoroughness of my tutorials on various forums. While I was still working, I did some technical documentation on owners manuals and patent applications, so it comes easy.
P.S. Why didn't you take photos of how you embedded the soil sensor in a PVC pipe? You did put the sensor in a PVC pipe didn't ya? ;)
I tried, as quoted below. I haven't done more on it yet.
I'm also "conditioning" the Soil Wetness sensor, as described in the installation instructions, by soaking, drying, then soaking again before planting it in the soil. I have some schedule 40 1/2" PVC, but the walls are too thick to insert the Soil Moisture sensor as shown in the manual. I'll drill it out a bit until it fits.
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Steve, once your ISS turns over 1 year old the look of it being "new" and shiny will be gone :(
I got my VP2 in 2009 and it has lost all its shininess when i first got it......
Fantastic write up btw, did Davis give you a new Vp2 console? Lucky guy!!!!
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Sorry Steve :-[
I tried, as quoted below. I haven't done more on it yet.
Running a little too fast around here . . . . didn't "speed-read" (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/car_3gears.gif) your write up carefully enough . . . . . (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/D%27oh.gif).
Suffering from a little too much soil moisture around here at the moment! (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/shocked_wide-eyed_smiley.gif)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Fantastic write up btw, did Davis give you a new Vp2 console? Lucky guy!!!!
Thanks! Yes, they included a VP2 Console and Windows version of WeatherLink. I won't even open either, as I have the system connected to my VP2 Console and Weather Envoy.
I wasn't able to fit the Soil Moisture sensor in the 1/2" Schedule 40 pipe, and I don't have a drill to fit to drilll it out. The instructions spec Class 315 Irrigation pipe, which has an ID of .715 compared to .602 ID on the1/2" Schedule 40 PVC pipe. 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC is .804 ID, and too sloppy, so I'll see if I can fid some irrigation pipe.
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Howdy Steve and WeatherCat Davis fans,
I wasn't able to fit the Soil Moisture sensor in the 1/2" Schedule 40 pipe, and I don't have a drill to fit to drilll it out. The instructions spec Class 315 Irrigation pipe, which has an ID of .715 compared to .602 ID on the1/2" Schedule 40 PVC pipe. 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC is .804 ID, and too sloppy, so I'll see if I can fid some irrigation pipe.
I was puzzled by the choice of schedule 40 PVC pipe. In a perfect world why choose plastic for starters? Plastic will be much slower to react to temperature changes than any metal and schedule 40 is very thick pipe. Wouldn't the thinner 125 PSI plastic pipe provide enough strength without slowing the thermal response as much?
I suppose copper pipe is not acceptable for some obvious reason I can't think of? Too bad aluminum pipe doesn't exist. It would be plenty strong, corrosion resistant, and excellent heat conducting properties.
I'm mostly thinking aloud here, but it does seem like schedule 40 is overkill for the task at hand.
Do let us know what you come with to protect your sensor.
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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The pipe is just for installing the Soil Moisture sensor, and only covers the very top of it, not the sensor area itself. So the pipe material doesn't come into play at all other than PVC is easy to work with and bonds to the sensor housing. The reasoning for the PVC is as much a handle to install as anything. Installation procedure is to drive in a steel pipe to extract a plug. The end of the steel pipe is slightly smaller than the rest of the length. This allows easy insertion of the sensor, having to only push it in the last couple of inches, then backfilling. The whole idea of installing this way is to disturb the surrounding soil as little as possible.
Steve
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Hi Steve and WeatherCat gardeners,
Sorry if my questions seem out of whack. It is hard to understand something like this without actually having the device in hand to see how parts fit together.
The pipe is just for installing the Soil Moisture sensor, and only covers the very top of it, not the sensor area itself.
I'm just wondering what could be done to further reduce the risk of damaging the sensor when removing it. Would it be worth gluing a "T" at the top of the PVC pipe to give yourself something that can be more easily grabbed? Or if you "follow da' instructions" you shouldn't have any trouble pulling the sensor out of the soil?
Just curious . . . .
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Well, if you follow the instructions to the "T", you need to make one of these to poke the hole in the soil:
(https://skitch.com/smorris/8k9fh/finder)
This makes a larger access hole and a smaller hole at the bottom to press the Soil Moisture sensor into.
Then you are supposed to glue the Soil Moisture sensor onto a piece of PVC, which allows you to insert the sensor in the hole prepared by the tool above. It would be a loose fit all the way down until the sensor met the smaller diameter, then snug for the final 2". Remember, some people put the sensor down 2,3, or 4 feet.
(https://img.skitch.com/20120315-kw6mynemb1u9ywgnr64una9hx.jpg)
Now do I really need to go through this with my sandy soil? Probably not. I'm only going to put it 10-12" down for starters, which is below root level for most of what I grow. But I figure if I'm reviewing and testing it, I might as well install it per the manual. I don't know if people remove them during the winter (recommended) but if so, the T-handle would be a good idea.
Looking for something to use in the garage has prompted a 2-day cleaning. All winter the garage becomes a place to toss things to go out in the barn, in the attic, taken apart and torn away, etc. With it being a Saturday and our temperature here of 75˚ (when it is normally in the 40s), I don't want to go to town and get anywhere near Home Depot. Its got to be crazy there today! We'll go Monday when all those poor suckers have to work. :D
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Howdy Steve and WeatherCat gardeners,
Well, if you follow the instructions to the "T", you need to make one of these to poke the hole in the soil:
(https://img.skitch.com/20120317-fum5rqypd9py217b5he8upmw8y.jpg)
I retrieved your image. Skitch was "hidin' it" :D
Golly, I don't know if that would work so that well. If your soil is real soft and loose, it would cave in before you got too far. If the soil is hard . . . . . I dunno' . . I think you need an soil auger bit.
I don't know if people remove them during the winter (recommended) but if so, the T-handle would be a good idea.
What do the folks on WXforum do? If removing the probe was sufficiently easy, I think I would be inclined to remove it. This sort of a probe has really harsh duties and if your goal is actually to help your plants, it isn't doing you any good during winter. So to extend the life of the probe, keeping out of the potentially freezing ground seems like a good idea. Of course if you are just plain curious, how could you pull it out when the coldest soil temperatures you'll record [freeze] are in the dead of winter!! [snow]
Looking for something to use in the garage has prompted a 2-day cleaning.
;) What's the matta' with ya!! (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/rant.gif) First reading the instructions, now cleaning the garage!! I'm going to report you to the lazy male slob police!! [lol]
I don't want to go to town and get anywhere near Home Depot. Its got to be crazy there today! We'll go Monday when all those poor suckers have to work.
Now you are making sense! [tup] Although I've completely given up on Home Depot. Fortunately, we have a few more choices in hardware stores theses days and sadly, Home Depot never did outgrow its warehouse model - to its real detriment! :(
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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OK, we left off with the Davis Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station temporarily installed. It has taken longer than expected to get back to it, but I made a lot of progress today.
I used a five foot long piece of galvanized pipe to mount the Davis Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station. I decided to mount it all one one post rather than have wires running from one to the other.
I used a post hole digger and dug down about 18", and then used a sledge to drive it in another 18" making sure it was plumb as I went. This left 24" sticking out of the ground for mounting the Station and Leaf Wetness Sensor.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-S6dWkfp/0/XL/DSC0001-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-h6tF3SZ/0/XL/DSC0004-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-b2Z5w3g/0/XL/DSC0002-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-8rqZgTF/0/XL/DSC0003-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-QVgzdQR/0/XL/DSC0006-XL.jpg)
I then mounted the Davis Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station housing and the Leaf Wetness Sensor on the new post. In conversation with Davis Support and on forums, and decided to point the Leaf Wetness Sensor north, simulating leaves not in direct sunlight. There isn't any siting suggestions in the instructions or on Davis' web site.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-gJH338R/0/XL/DSC0008-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-6bpTb95/0/XL/DSC0009-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-jz4F2Nt/0/XL/DSC0011-XL.jpg)
Next I planted the Soil Temperature and Moisture Sensors. I couldn't find the Class 315 PVC irrigation pipe that's specified for installing the Soil Moisture Sensor. But my soil is so loamy that I was able to insert it easily without. I used a broom handle and marked 10", then stuck this in the soil. I carefully removed it, and then inserted the Soil Moisture Sensor in the hole. I inserted the Soil Temperature Sensor at the same depth next to it, and then packed the soil over both sensors. I used one of the supplied wire clamps to hold down the wires in the garden bed.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-zf3tDzw/0/XL/DSC0012-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-HC64QP8/0/XL/DSC0013-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-tvgW2dh/0/XL/DSC0014-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-GCwN2Fh/0/XL/DSC0015-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-2vnXLrh/0/XL/DSC0017-XL.jpg)
Next, I wired all three cables into the Leaf & Soil Station housing, using the clamps to hold the wires in place. I temporarily wire-tied the cables to the galvanized pipe, and will organize these better later.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-C3RskL8/0/XL/DSC0018-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-9wQQJnJ/0/XL/DSC0019-XL.jpg)
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-hWNRMmc/0/XL/DSC0020-XL.jpg)
Below is a chart showing the Leaf Wetness, Soil Temperature, and Soil Moisture. You can see that I had the Leaf and Soil Temperature sensors attached from the preliminary setup, and that the Temperature Sensor was showing our abnormally hot day. Then both were disconnected during installation. I had "conditioned" the Soil Moisture Sensor prior to installation per the instructions, but in this weather, it must have dried out too much. The spike in the Leaf Wetness reading was accidentally getting the Leaf Wetness Sensor wet while watering the peas sprouting in the adjacent garden bed.
(https://img.skitch.com/20120322-bmr7s6929jk29sqnsn5tgayrnk.jpg)
So, aside from tidying up the cables, the Davis Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station is completely installed, working correctly, and ready to begin testing in our gardens. I will continue to review and report on this installation. I have the Soil Temperature and Moisture Sensors planted 10" deep, as most of our garden crops are shallow rooted. I can see a desire to add additional sensors, both deeper in the garden and in the yard to give a better overall sense of the soil conditions. The latter would be of more interest to my web page viewers, as well.
As always, comments and questions are welcome. I want to thank [urlhttp://davisnet.com/weather/index.asp]Davis Instruments[/url] and Sierra Communications (http://sierracomm.com/) for making this Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station available for use to review and test.
Stay tuned,
Steve
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Howdy Steve and WeatherCat fans,
Thanks for that update!! [tup] Golly just going through those pictures made me tired!! [sleep]
I'm under the gun again, so I'll have to come back to this later, but thanks for going to so much effort to detail things!
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
;) P.S. If you are so energetic, would you come up here and wash a car for me? (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/small_car.gif) [lol]
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;) P.S. If you are so energetic, would you come up here and wash a car for me?
I don't even wash my own cars! That's what rain is for... :)
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Be careful Steve, . . . . ;)
;) P.S. If you are so energetic, would you come up here and wash a car for me?
I don't even wash my own cars! That's what rain is for... :)
;) Haven't you heard of acid rain? . . . . [heavyrain] What you didn't know is that all the Pacific rim auto manufacturers have developed the ultimate weapon and profit system: "guided acid rain!!" [lol2]
Its enough to keep a mature Buick in the garage!! (http://www.canebas.org/Automotive/V8_Buick/Misc/Biquette_V8_Buick_signature.gif)
Grin and bear it!! [goofy]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
P.S. ;) Okay, so I lied, they don't send guided acid rain, they just pay off the politicians who . . . . fix the roads and allocate the salt!! (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/dazed_smiley.gif)
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I made a temporary web page with just a graph for the Davis Leaf & Soil Moisture/Temp Station data. I'll do something different once I get an idea of how I'm going to use it and present it. Take a look at: http://www.avon-weather.com/soil.html
(https://img.skitch.com/20120324-hpjm269ducafk8swix6ayg4dn.jpg)
The Leaf Wetness is a linear scale from zero (dry) to 15 (full wet)
The Soil Temperature is self-explanatory and is in degrees F
The Soil Moisture is a scale from 200 (bone dry) to zero (soaking wet)
Below is a conversion chart for Soil Moisture for sandy loam soil I found from Montana State University (http://waterquality.montana.edu/docs/irrigation/shallow_roots.shtml)
(https://img.skitch.com/20120324-pf3h2kdtam132gyuru9uf1t9kr.jpg)
Using the current reading of 13 cB at 10", I have 1.25" of moisture content. With the current ET of .16", I have about 8 days of moisture available. (1.25/.16=7.8 ) However, we are getting a nice rain shower now, so everything will change. This is going to be interesting to keep track of!
Thanks for following along,
Steve
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Stu,
On the Live Data Viewer, there are temperatures listed for Leaf Temp 1-4, but the Leaf Wetness Sensor does not state that it has a temperature probe as part of its specs. The Leaf Temp 1 is the same temperature as the Soil Temp 1, so is this assuming the same? Air temp at the moment is 42˚, but Leaf and Soil Temp are both show as 50˚
Thanks,
Steve
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Howdy Steve, Stu, and WeatherCat gardeners, (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/gardening_smiley.gif)
On the Live Data Viewer, there are temperatures listed for Leaf Temp 1-4, but the Leaf Wetness Sensor does not state that it has a temperature probe as part of its specs. The Leaf Temp 1 is the same temperature as the Soil Temp 1, so is this assuming the same? Air temp at the moment is 42˚, but Leaf and Soil Temp are both show as 50˚
Perhaps appropriate given where these sensors are located, but as far as I can tell - Davis makes this situation as clear as - mud!! :o
There appear to be three spec sheets that seem relevant to this question:
- Vantage Pro/Pro2: Leaf Wetness Sensor (6420) (http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6420_spec_Rev_E.pdf)
- Vantage Pro/Pro2: Soil Moisture Sensor (6440) (http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6440_Spec_Rev_E.pdf)
- Leaf & Soil Moist/Temp. Station (6345) (http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6345_Spec_Rev_D.pdf)
The actual sensor specs are very helpful . . . . except for one minor detail - neither mentions any capacity to measure temperature, nor are temperature ranges mentioned in the specs.
The third document fortunately clarifies the matter completely . . . . (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/clonk_head.gif). It does mention temperature ranges . . . . in general. As if the station was somehow generating the temperature values and indeed from which probe?? . . . . ???
So . . . . . as soon as somebody can figure out how this all actually works . . . . . could ya' please explain it to me!! (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/dazed_smiley.gif)
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
P.S. Oh by the way. There are only 2 conductors supposedly for the soil sensor while the leaf sensors requires 4 . . . . So how is soil temperature and moisture determined simultaneously from electrical resistance alone?
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You missed one piece of the puzzle:
4. Multi-Purpose Temperature Probe (6470) (http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6470_Spec_Rev_F.pdf)
The sensor ranges you see at the bottom of the third specification above are from the temp probe, which is used in conjunction with the Soil Moisture Sensor. I think the Leaf Temperature is really displaying the Soil Temperature in the Live Data Viewer.
BTW, to see a soil information page done well, take a look here: http://www.websterweatherlive.com/wxsoil.php
Lots of server-side stuff done there, as this is a customized add-on to Ken's AJAX templates.
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Thanks Steve! [tup]
You missed one piece of the puzzle:
4. Multi-Purpose Temperature Probe (6470) (http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6470_Spec_Rev_F.pdf)
Ah, much better!! [bounce]
Now the physics makes sense!
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Stu,
On the Live Data Viewer, there are temperatures listed for Leaf Temp 1-4, but the Leaf Wetness Sensor does not state that it has a temperature probe as part of its specs. The Leaf Temp 1 is the same temperature as the Soil Temp 1, so is this assuming the same? Air temp at the moment is 42˚, but Leaf and Soil Temp are both show as 50˚
Thanks,
Steve
Hi Steve,
This is a function of the console software - it sends the same value for both the soil temperature and leaf temperature. If you press the HUM key on the console to display the leaf temperature, you'll see it's the same as the soil temperature.
Cheers,
Stu.
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Thanks Stu, I see that they are the same. I just don't think it is correct. (Davis' data, not yours.) If the air temp is 42˚ and the soil temp 10" deep is 50˚, I doubt the surface of the leaf will also be 50˚ as indicated on the console. I'll have to ask Davis Support about that one!
Steve
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I found a steal on a previously owned but unused Leaf Wetness & Soil Temperature/Moisture Station with two Soil Temperature Probes. Today I used one of the Soil Temperature Probes and buried it in my strawberry patch. It is at the same 10" depth as the first Soil Temperature Probe, but the bed it is in has been empty unit today when we transplanted tomato plants in it. I expect to see that the foliage from the strawberries tempers the soil temperature changes and keeps the soil cooler during the day. I can already see that there's a 3˚ difference.
I've added a chart on my soil web page. It is still a work in progress, so it isn't linked from the main pages yet. Take a look at http://www.avon-weather.com/soil.html
Steve
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Howdy Steve and WeatherCat gardeners, (http://www.canebas.org/Weather/LWC_forum/Custom_emoticons/gardening_smiley.gif)
I found a steal on a previously owned but unused Leaf Wetness & Soil Temperature/Moisture Station with two Soil Temperature Probes.
;) Sure hope the cops don't find out about this!! [lol2]
Today I used one of the Soil Temperature Probes and buried it in my strawberry patch. It is at the same 10" depth as the first Soil Temperature Probe, but the bed it is in has been empty unit today when we transplanted tomato plants in it. I expect to see that the foliage from the strawberries tempers the soil temperature changes and keeps the soil cooler during the day. I can already see that there's a 3˚ difference.
To be honest, what you are observing I had concluded absolutely had to be true "da' old fashioned way." Our yard is at the edge of an impromptus woods and conditions can vary widely. Some area's are still wet when the last significant rains were almost a month ago. Other areas are starting to look like death valley. [sweat2] To get a reasonable idea of what is going on in our yard would take at least half a dozen sensors and . . . . . well, the budget needs to consider other potentially pressing needs! (http://www.canebas.org/Automotive/V8_Buick/Misc/Biquette_V8_Buick_signature.gif)
I've added a chart on my soil web page. It is still a work in progress, so it isn't linked from the main pages yet. Take a look at http://www.avon-weather.com/soil.html
However, I'm really glad to have the chance to learn from your experiences!! [bounce] Please do keep posting!! [tup] Since I'm not likely to get a chance to try one of your strawberries . . . . it is the next best thing!! ;D
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Yea, I know the soil is cooler in the shade without needing a fancy system to tell me. ::) ;)
The real purpose of purchasing the second Leaf and Soil Station is to save money in the long run. I got the whole setup for little more than what the two Soil Temperature Probes would cost. Once it comes time to either send the complete system back to Davis or buy it, I can send back their station and keep this one and save over $125. But until then I'm playing with it testing various setups. Ultimately I'll have the three Soil Temperature Probes at three different depths, probably along with two more Soil Moisture Sensors.
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Howdy Steve and WeatherCat fans,
Yea, I know the soil is cooler in the shade without needing a fancy system to tell me. ::) ;)
The real difference though is that you have a much more elaborate garden. If you have enough cultivation going on, you have a real chance to gain something even if it isn't entirely economic. Home grown food has a value that cannot be measured in dollars. If you have a suitable place to produce a substantial harvest, it is well worth the effort do make that work.
So, I agree - you have a real incentive to pursue this. We don't have the sort or property where this makes much sense (unless the goal is to feed the gophers, deer, etc. . . . . [banghead]) So in this case I can't do much more than be a cheerleader!! [cheer]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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[edit] Copying discussion concerning this topic in another thread to keep everything together.
Hi Steve-
I enjoyed your very thorough write-up, you must be an engineer with that kind of detail. I also enjoyed all of your other weather pics on your website, but I did have one question...what's with the rain bucket 'condom'? How does that work??
Anyway, I liked you idea with the dual zone soil moisture/temperature placement; makes lots of sense for deep root and shallow root placement. For my garden, I have some perennial flowers and carrots that are about the deepest roots, so I kept all my sensors in the 6-8" deep zone. Speaking of placement, I never went with the Davis idea of glueing the sensors to a PVC pipe and placing that in the ground. I have an idea I know what they're after, 1) visibility of the sensor so the cable doesn't get cut, and 2) to ensure the sensor has soil packed all around it to keep out and air pockets to lessen false readings.
For my setup, I buried the cable 6" deep all the way from the beds to the 4x4 post that the station is mounted on, then attached neon flags where they enter the garden and put the flags on the surface so I can retrieve the cables and sensors when I have to dig/till. I'm going to see how that setup goes this year to see if the lawn guys cut the flags so I may revisit this next year. As far as the sensors themselves, I also conditioned them before placement to ensure more accurate readings. Instead of the PVC pipe, I drove a stick (each about the same diameter as the sensors) into the ground at and angle at a spot that was tamped down and put the sensors there and back-filled them. So far that seems to work as I can watch the moisture levels on all 4 sensors fluctuate during wet/dry conditions. It appears from your photos that you have the moisture sensor pretty close to the 2x8 side. Did you give any thought of putting it a little further out into your bed where most of your roots are?
As far as the placement of the leaf-wetness sensor, I emailed Davis but got nothing definitive except basically "read the manual". So I looked at what was around the garden and settled on a height about 3.5' and placed it on the SW side of the 4x4. The thinking was that I was trying to replicate dew and I didn't want it 'burning off too quickly' by putting it on the NE side, after all, I've got lots of tomatoes that still have dew 'til late in the AM. Right now my leaf wetness sensor 'burn-off' time is around the same time as most everything else in the garden so this orientation works for me. An added plus with the leaf wetness sensor as you may have seen is it will pick up the slightest amount of rain, well before the rain bucket does it's first 'tip'.
Again, nice write-ups and good luck with your gardening this year.
Jeb
Thank you, Jeb. And, yes indeed, I did work in engineering for over 35 years before retiring.
The rain condom is a bollard cap for pilings in marinas. I use it as a cover for the Davis VP2 while I am watering my garden. I record the amount I water using the CoCoRaHS gauge and record it separately , but don't want the VP2 data to include artificial precipitation.
My two soil temperature probes are at the same depth, but in different gardens. The strawberry patch keeps the soil cool, only changing a few degrees during the day, while the more open patch under the tomatoes fluctuates up to 10 degrees during the day. We'll see how this works out with our crop yield. We've put black plastic down under the tomatoes in the past to keep the soil hot. I may experiment with this next season and see if there is a substantial difference.
I did consider the proximity of the probes to the side of the raised bed box. I may get a slight artificially higher moisture content as this concentrates the rain or sprinkler water that runs down the inside of the box. I am on very sandy soil, so I've assumed that it dissipates a little. I will be getting two more soil moisture probes, so next year I will plant them further out in the garden.
It looks like you've optimized your leaf wetness sensor for the most accurate results. I pointed mine north, as the very early morning sun is blocked by a tree to the east of the garden. So I figured north would be the last to "burn off". On the WXforum, I've read of folks placing two leaf sensors; one north and the other south. I definitely have noticed how great the leaf sensor works as a precipitation detector, peaking out when the very first drizzle starts. In a very light rain, this may be many minutes before the first bucket tip, if it tips at all.
Thanks for the nice comments. I'm going to quote your reply with my Soil Station thread here and on MacWeather.net to keep these comments together.
Thanks,
Steve
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I've had a soil temperature and a soil moisture probe buried in my pasture for over 5 years. They have performed flawlessly and saved me hundreds of dollars in watering cost.
The major short-coming is the limitation of only one remote sensor station per system. I want to bury more probes in my multi-acre pasture, but would have to connect them to my station by long cables. I'd rather put a second or third remote sensor station and bury the probes near each station.
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The major short-coming is the limitation of only one remote sensor station per system. I want to bury more probes in my multi-acre pasture, but would have to connect them to my station by long cables. I'd rather put a second or third remote sensor station and bury the probes near each station.
I agree. I picked up a second, used but unused, soil station to switch to when I have to send my test unit back to Davis. Meanwhile, I was hoping to set it up with one of the temp sensors elsewhere in the yard, but it doesn't work that way...
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Folks,
I have a Vantage Vue in NY and a full Vantage Pro 2 in Maine. Can I use the soil/leaf wetness kit with the Vantage Vue or just the Pro 2? Do I need any more hardware or does the white box transmit to my existing Weather Envoy?
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Hi JG and WeatherCat fans,
I have a Vantage Vue in NY and a full Vantage Pro 2 in Maine. Can I use the soil/leaf wetness kit with the Vantage Vue or just the Pro 2? Do I need any more hardware or does the white box transmit to my existing Weather Envoy?
Davis has a nice set of comparison tables between the Vantage Vue and the Vantage Pro-2 line here:
http://www.davisnet.com/weather/how-to-choose-a-weather-station/index.asp (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/how-to-choose-a-weather-station/index.asp)
According to to the simple comparison table (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/choose_vantage_simple.pdf): Unfortunately not. You need a Vantage Pro-2 to connect a soil leaf sensor.
Sorry
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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Hi JG and WeatherCat fans,
I have a Vantage Vue in NY and a full Vantage Pro 2 in Maine. Can I use the soil/leaf wetness kit with the Vantage Vue or just the Pro 2? Do I need any more hardware or does the white box transmit to my existing Weather Envoy?
Davis has a nice set of comparison tables between the Vantage Vue and the Vantage Pro-2 line here:
http://www.davisnet.com/weather/how-to-choose-a-weather-station/index.asp (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/how-to-choose-a-weather-station/index.asp)
According to to the simple comparison table (http://www.davisnet.com/weather/choose_vantage_simple.pdf): Unfortunately not. You need a Vantage Pro-2 to connect a soil leaf sensor.
Sorry
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
Thanks.
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Can I put the new "base" on a different pole so I can locate it closer to the areas/soil I want to monitor or does it have to be on the same pole as the Vantage Pro 2?
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New base? Do you mean the transmitter for the soil/leaf station? If so, it can be anywhere that the signal can reach your Envoy. The ISS doesn't receive the signal from the soil/leaf station. It goes directly to the Console and/or Envoy.
(http://smorris.smugmug.com/Weather/soil-moisture/i-jz4F2Nt/0/XL/DSC0011-XL.jpg)
Remember that you will need to set the soil/leaf station transmitter to a different channel than the ISS, and turn on that channel in the Console and/or Envoy.
Steve
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Thanks. I haven't played with the Envoy in years, how hard is it to turn on the channel? I'll locate it closer to the soil I want to monitor.
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With the Console, you just go through the setup menu as shown in the manual. With the Envoy, you will need to use Davis' WeatherLink for Mac software to do the setup.
Steve
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I have no idea where the WeatherLink original CD is, can I download?
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It doesn't show on their web page. You can call Davis to see if they will let you.
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So I could use the Leaf/Soil sensor with my Envoy and my Vantage Vue, I just won't be able to see the readings on the console, only through WeatherCat, right? Is there any limit on how many soil temp/moisture probes WeatherCat can handle?
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The leaf/soil station's transmitter will not be received by your Vantage Vue. The Envoy would receive the signal directly from the leaf/soil station transmitter, though. Then the data will show in WeatherCat. The Leaf/Soil station varies how it can be setup, and the manual on Davis' site goes into detail on this.
The maximum that can be attached to a fully populated Leaf/Soil station transmitter is 2 leaf wetness sensors, 4 soil moisture sensors, and 4 soil temperature probes.
If you look in WeatherCat's Tools menu --> Live Data, you will see that Stu has allocated channels for up to 4 leaf wetness sensors, so you can actually use WeatherCat with more than one Leaf/Soil Station transmitter.
I hope that helps,
Steve
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Steve,
I looked at your site and it doesn't look like you are archiving the soil temp/moisture data? Will Weathercat include them in the stats?
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Steve,
I looked at your site and it doesn't look like you are archiving the soil temp/moisture data? Will Weathercat include them in the stats?
I don't have the soil data linked to my web site. I didn't think folks would be interested in how much moisture was in my garden soil, and I don't really have it presented as well as the other web pages. HERE (http://www.avon-weather.com/soil.html) is a direct link to the soil page.
WeatherCat does NOT include soil/leaf data in the daily or monthly reports, although the information is in the raw data stored by WeatherCat. If enough of us end up with soil data, perhaps Stu might add an option for additional reporting.
Steve
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Steve,
I looked at your site and it doesn't look like you are archiving the soil temp/moisture data? Will Weathercat include them in the stats?
I don't have the soil data linked to my web site. I didn't think folks would be interested in how much moisture was in my garden soil, and I don't really have it presented as well as the other web pages. HERE (http://www.avon-weather.com/soil.html) is a direct link to the soil page.
WeatherCat does NOT include soil/leaf data in the daily or monthly reports, although the information is in the raw data stored by WeatherCat. If enough of us end up with soil data, perhaps Stu might add an option for additional reporting.
Steve
Thanks.
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I have it running, you can see the readings and graph here:
http://www.jgweather.info/StowWeather/index.html
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Howdy WeatherCat fans!
Congrats JC on getting your website up and running. Looks nice!! [tup]
Cheers, Edouard [cheers1]
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I have it running, you can see the readings and graph here:
http://www.jgweather.info/StowWeather/index.html
Cool! Looks great. I've been out of town, so I just saw your post. Glad I could help get things going for you,
Steve