Author Topic: That was interesting...  (Read 4298 times)

bcurry

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That was interesting...
« on: June 08, 2016, 10:23:47 PM »
My CWOP analysis had been showing an error in my dew point and temperature for a few days, with the temp going too high especially in the late afternoon. Thinking maybe the grass and one nearby bush to be the culprit I went up the little hill it's on, and cut around the area, and then thought it a good chance to reset my station by raising the anemometer up 8 feet higher to meet specs better, and that would allow the sensors to be placed up higher than they were.
I removed the cover and an entire ant colony dropped out - little ants evrywhere!
The sensor is back now and a bit higher and the anemometer is now up another 8 feet, so it is now 40 feet above the house and surrounding land.
Gives a new meaning to buggy readings...

Bill


Blicj11

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 10:43:41 PM »
Ha ha Bill. Glad to read that you have now officially debugged your ISS. Edouard should add that to his Annual Maintenance list:
Check for Ants ==> If found, remove.
Blick


elagache

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Upping da' anty? (Re: That was interesting...)
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2016, 11:15:52 PM »
Dear Bill, Blick, and WeatherCat weather instrument caregivers,

I removed the cover and an entire ant colony dropped out - little ants evrywhere!

 [wink] . . . . Now is that upping the anty? . . . or perhaps downing the anty? . . . . .  [biggrin]

My CWOP analysis had been showing an error in my dew point and temperature for a few days, with the temp going too high especially in the late afternoon.

If your station doesn't have a fan, then the temperature values can bias on the high side because the heat reflecting off the ground will heat your instruments and that will reflect a higher temperature than the actual air flowing around the sensor.

There are various upgrades available permitting you to install a fan.  If you have any way to bring AC power to where your temperature probe is located, you could install an inexpensive PC case fan as described here:

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=1865.0

A brisk air flow might also discourage ants from attempting to take residence in your temperature-humidity probe!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

bcurry

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2016, 11:23:37 PM »
Good thoughts Edouard -
I might try the fan thing, but think I'll see how the reset site works. The sensors had been about 3 feet off the ground, and there is grass and one shrub nearby. I cut the grass, and trimmed the bush, and the sensor is now up 5 feet off the ground.
I had not had a problem before, so I'm hoping that fixes me up. If not, I'll have to think about the fan idea, although power to the area isn't easy. Perhaps a total relighting...

Bill


elagache

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Dear Bill and WeatherCat station caregivers,

I might try the fan thing, but think I'll see how the reset site works. The sensors had been about 3 feet off the ground, and there is grass and one shrub nearby. I cut the grass, and trimmed the bush, and the sensor is now up 5 feet off the ground.
I had not had a problem before, so I'm hoping that fixes me up.

It certainly could solve your problems.  As long as there is a bit of wind, the existing Davis radiation shield will work just fine.  The problem comes in when there is absolutely no air-flow through the shield.  The higher you put the probe, the greater the general wind flow.

If not, I'll have to think about the fan idea, although power to the area isn't easy. Perhaps a total relighting...

Well, for the sake of completeness let me give you the two wireless alternatives.  For a while Davis sold a daytime only fan kit  (i.e. spinning only when there is enough solar power.)   It has been discontinued, but a few dealers like Scaled Instruments still carry it:

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-7747-daytime-fan-aspirated-radiation-shield-kit/

It isn't cheap, but it is almost 1/2 of the alternative below.  I bought this kit and powered the fan using a 3 volt transformer.  Alas the motor only lasted 6 months before giving up.  That's when I switched to a PC case motor.  When powered by solar the motors are supposed to last a lot longer.

The top of the line Davis stations have a fan system that includes a solar panel and rechargeable batteries.  Normally you cannot buy this as an add-on, but Ryan at Scaled Instruments actually parts out new Davis stations so he can sell this upgrade kit:

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-6153s-24hr-solar-powered-aspirated-shield-for-pro2/

However at $250, it is expensive.

Returning to your original ant problem, have you tried to keep insects away from your instruments?   Decades ago, we used to use a product called tanglefoot to create a barrier that ants and other crawling insects couldn't cross:

http://www.tanglefoot.com/

Also, I periodically put out some poisoned ant bait to keep the ant populations from growing too much.  I use this stuff, but I'm sure there are a number of products out there:

http://www.terro.com/

It seems to work as I intent it, just keeping the populations in check.  The ants certainly don't disappear.

I don't know what other WeatherCatters do to keep their stations from being invaded by pests - anyone else have some constructive suggestions?

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

bcurry

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 12:42:54 PM »
Thanks for the link to the scaled instruments page - if the issue persists, I think I might try the daytime aspirated solar fan!
So to make the thread go sideways a bit, here's my overall issue, and I'd love commentary:
The instruments right now are on the East side of our property and inline with my study window. The Vantage Pro 2 sensors sit on a pole now 5' above the ground and the anemometer is on a 10 foot pole - but both sit on top of a berm that protects the house from water running down a small hill, so they are now 30 feet above the house's roof. That means the anemometer is superbly sited and stands about 40 feet above the home. The issue is there is vegetation up the berm - landscaped bushes and shrubs and some higher grasses. I could mow this down regularly and I suppose that would help, but there is bound to be some windshear from the surrounding objects - although the anemometer is well above all this.
I may be getting a new computer for my photography business this year, and that would allow me to use the Mac Pro the WeatherCat software runs on solely for the weather station. I could then re-site the entire thing - and have the computer in a different room. The issue would be, if I place the instruments in the wide open lawn, which is large, they are below the house (it's a gentle but 20 foot drop). The instruments would be more exposed to breezes and such, but then I'd have to have a very high pole or setup for the anemometer as it would have to go up 50 feet or more to be above the roof of the house.
I do think the spot the instruments are in now is better, but I'd be open to suggestions...Is a wide open lawn that much better? How high would I need to get the anemometer?

Thanks,
Bill


xairbusdriver

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2016, 04:12:39 PM »
Suggested readings:Bottom line: You'll probably never get a perfect siting location, unless you can afford to buy a few dozen acres of land several miles from the nearest hill and buildings. And, then, your data may be show higher wind/temps/rain than most other stations within a few miles of you that are in 'regular' subdivisions! [rolleyes2] [lol]
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


elagache

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Just keep instruments free of grass? (Re: That was interesting...)
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 09:54:08 PM »
Dear Bill, X-Air, and WeatherCat station design consultants,

The instruments right now are on the East side of our property and inline with my study window. The Vantage Pro 2 sensors sit on a pole now 5' above the ground and the anemometer is on a 10 foot pole - but both sit on top of a berm that protects the house from water running down a small hill, so they are now 30 feet above the house's roof. That means the anemometer is superbly sited and stands about 40 feet above the home. The issue is there is vegetation up the berm - landscaped bushes and shrubs and some higher grasses. I could mow this down regularly and I suppose that would help, but there is bound to be some windshear from the surrounding objects - although the anemometer is well above all this.

This location sounds a lot better than any alternative since it is above the roof of your house.  There is another reason to leave things where they are.  You have some data collected at this location, if you move the instruments the data might not compare so easily.

As you say, the anemometer shouldn't be effected by the weeds on the berm.  I'm guessing it is quite a hassle to mow down the berm, otherwise I would imagine you would keep it clean for appearance and fire safety sake.  Do you have a string trimmer by chance?  Could you simply keep a small area around the instruments free of tall plants without it becoming too much of a hassle?

As far as potential need for a fan, you might explore the matter a bit more by checking the temperature around your area with a conventional thermometer.  Any spot that is completely in the shade and free of other sources of heat should give you a good indication of the air temperature that you want your thermometer to capture.  You might want to also get the temperature around the berm.  Because the berm is a comparatively narrow slice of land and the earth around it is still lower, your existing passive radiation shield might be sufficient and no fan would be necessary.

You really have a ideal location for your instruments, enjoy it!

Cheers, Edouard

Blicj11

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2016, 09:27:13 AM »
Bill:

Your anemometer appears to be in its ideal location now. I moved mine two years ago next month and was amazed at the difference in both speed and direction I got after I relocated it well above my roofline. I think you are now set for the ideal location of your outdoor components.
Blick


bcurry

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 11:06:27 AM »
Hi all,
Thanks for all the tips and thoughts.
My weather station is now getting the two thumbs up and double check marks from CWOP !
Glad I didn't move the instruments, except for the mentioned changes - and one of the most pertinent points brought up by people here was that I already have a data set for the last few years at the very location the instruments are at - and the readings had been fine before. I do notice a better wind reading now because of the higher placement of the anemometer, and I am using a string trimmer to make sure the berm vegetation stays low around the instruments.
I have had several people comment on my new website (www.billcurry.ca/weather) with the WeatherCat template - great fun, and very interesting.
Cheers,
Bill


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Glad you setup has passed the test! (Re: That was interesting...)
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 11:00:18 PM »
Thanks Bill for the status update!

Congratulations for getting a clean bill of health on your instruments and that your website is generating some positive feedback!  [tup]

Keep up posted on your weather website adventures!  :)

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Blicj11

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Re: That was interesting...
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 11:59:41 PM »
Bill:

I like what you are done on your weather site. nice work.
Blick