Author Topic: Ability to track Snow Depth  (Read 816 times)

monymony

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Ability to track Snow Depth
« on: December 11, 2017, 11:30:12 PM »
In addition to already being able to track daily snowfall, the ability to also track the daily snow depth would be a great addition.



Blicj11

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 04:14:55 PM »
Yes! I am currently tracking today's snow depth on my banner, but being able to have a record of snow cover by day would be a welcome addition.
Blick


wurzelmac

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 12:09:34 PM »
Signed!  [snowflake]
Reinhard


xairbusdriver

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 05:15:37 PM »
I assume, dangerous as that may be, that depth values are done manually. At least I would think any kind of automatic sensor could be expensive. Snow is so much more fragile than other physical matter. It doesn’t take much to disturb it and thereby alter its state/shape and possibly its proximity to the measuring device. I can think of many complex ways to measure but they all have a weakness and probably reliability problems. I would think even picking a location could seriously affect the data. Anyone know how the NWS or other official organizations measure this stuff? I suspect the local NWS office uses a pre-cooled yard stick! Maybe just a foot long ruler!! [lol] We usually fire any weatherman who doesn’t prevent any snow accumulation!! [rolleyes2]

Felix

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 10:10:51 AM »

Blicj11

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 10:21:42 AM »
Blick


xairbusdriver

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 03:35:18 PM »
Thanks for the link! As I said, it's rather complicated and it's prone to lots of human erer! Plus, this method is completely manual, absolutely no kind of "automation".

Of course, the human error part is mitigated with important tips like: "Before it snows, put your snow measuring board outside." It's probably very frustrating to also forget where that board is! "Oops! Can I still measure the snow on the board with my size 13 foot print?"

Personally, I prefer our local method of simply firing any weather person who allows:
  • more than two inches for one event
  • more than 2 days of ground coverage

I'm sure most of those who enjoy snow and weather data collection don't mind doing the work required to do the measuring. For folks who only get problems from occasional snow, I doubt many will do this for free. [blush]

As I understand the process described, you are not really asking for an automatic/mechanical/electronic device as much as a place to enter the data in WC. Of course, WC would need to make use of the data. That is a somewhat easier task, after all, "programming is simply typing"! cmu:-)

Felix

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 04:50:55 PM »
Ref: Forgetting the location of the snowboard


See slides 7 & 8 ... snow flags or reflectors prevent forgetting unless you’re in Blick country where the snow depth sometimes covers and/or drifts over the flags. Mine are 48 inches tall and luckily I haven’t seen a snowfall that deep.


wurzelmac

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 05:16:48 PM »
My two cents, or maybe three...

I am measuring the new fallen snow now since a while and I accumulate the fallen snow yearly (seasonly). Till now I was not interested in measuring snow coverage, but as Meteotemplate offers this as an option I began to do so since yesterday (major snowfall) and try to continue the rest of the season. The quality goal is to be exact in new/fresh fallen snow, not in the depth of coverage. This is only interesting for me if the was a closed snow surface or not. To get really exact measurements of snow depth there is no way to go around such a toy like this:
http://www.sommer.at/en/products/snow-ice/snow-depth-sensor-ush-8
I think I am going to ask them if I should sell my Ferrari for it or only the Fiat.  lol(1)
Reinhard


mcrossley

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 06:37:20 PM »
If you have the ability to DIY electronics, then there are plenty of threads on the wx forum about hacking laser (and ultrasonic) "tape" measures into snow depth measuring devices. They provide an automated method that is easier on the pocket - if not the brain.
Mark

xairbusdriver

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 07:16:22 PM »
Since I know absolutely nothing about the point of measuring snow depth...
I would think the amount of water in the snow would be of more importance than the depth (unless one runs a ski resort). The pdf covers converting the frozen precip to liquid. I think that the discussion spoke of doing these manual inspections at a specific time each day. I assume that also meant only once a day. However, a lot of snow could sublimate in 24 hours, so the amount of water may still not equate to how much finally gets into the soil or aquifer. I guess I'm not sure what the measurements are actually for nor how accurate they may be in meeting that purpose.

wurzelmac

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 07:33:45 PM »
xair:

I think a graph such as this one used by the avalanche warning authority in Tyrol may show a good use of tracking snow depth:

(In addition to that: Aren't weather data collectors a bit crazy? So why not collect this data, too?  ;D )
Reinhard


xairbusdriver

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 10:57:13 PM »
Quote
In addition to that: Aren't weather data collectors a bit crazy? So why not collect this data, too?
Are you asking for data on craziness or snow depth?! I'll admit to being more than a bit crazy. And I don't like snow as much as I did in my much younger days.

Seriously, avalanche warnings are certainly worth knowing. Around here, we still have to warn people not to drive on flooded roads... talk about crazy people! And there are people who actually chase tornadoes!!! They usually only catch one... [banghead] [rolleyes2]

WCDev

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 10:59:22 AM »
Just to clarify, this would be exactly the same as daily snowfall, but for the current depth of snow?

What data could be derived/calculated from this data - currently the daily snow capture allows the calculation of accumulated snow over a period of time - for example weekly, monthly or annual. What could be done with snow depth - average over a period of time? - i.e. average snow depth in December...

wurzelmac

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Re: Ability to track Snow Depth
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 11:32:51 AM »
Quote
Just to clarify, this would be exactly the same as daily snowfall, but for the current depth of snow?
For me that would be perfect.
Quote
What data could be derived/calculated from this data - currently the daily snow capture allows the calculation of accumulated snow over a period of time - for example weekly, monthly or annual. What could be done with snow depth - average over a period of time? - i.e. average snow depth in December...
A graph like the attached one or that I posted yesterday? Not the accumulated snow over the period, but the real coverage of the surface.

 :)
Reinhard