Trixology

General Category => General Computing/Macintosh => Topic started by: elagache on January 28, 2019, 10:47:48 PM

Title: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: elagache on January 28, 2019, 10:47:48 PM
Dear WeatherCatters who are keeping an eye on Apple developments,

For many years, I have been running a refurbished early-2010 17" MacBook Pro.

https://support.apple.com/kb/sp621?locale=en_US (https://support.apple.com/kb/sp621?locale=en_US)

Unfortunately, this computer wasn't particular well treated by its previous owner and finally it is showing signs of giving up the ghost.  I would much prefer to buy a new computer to avoid these sorts of problems and would also like to get as much ram as possible.  16GB just doesn't cut it anymore.

Apple doesn't make that many computers that would meet that spec.  Regular iMacs and MacBook Pros are limited to 32 GB.  I'm not sure doubling my memory is sufficient.  The iMac Pro certainly would meet the spec, but is extremely expensive - ditto for the Mac Pro.  That leaves one candidate as a compromise between price and performance - the Mac mini:

https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/ (https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/)

The options of 64 GB of ram and 1 TB SSD definitely bring up the price, but even with a 5K monitor it is substantially less than the iMac Pro.  In fact you could buy 2 monitors and still be cheaper than the iMac Pro.

Of course getting a monitor that supports the full resolution of a Mac is another kettle of fish.  Here is an article about it:

https://www.monitornerds.com/best-4k-and-5k-displays-for-mac/ (https://www.monitornerds.com/best-4k-and-5k-displays-for-mac/)

If you want to use the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) adapter, you basically have no choice right now but the LG models sold at the Apple store:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKN62LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKN62LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display)

That still leaves a problem about replacing my obsolete USB hubs to a model that supports USB 3.  However, I'm hoping that shifting from Firewire 800 to USB 3 for my hard drives will be seamless

Do I seem to have my head around the basic problem?  I'm hoping that I can make the leap from High Sierra to Mojave without too much suffering.

Any thoughts would be definitely appreciated!  [tup]

Cheers, Edouard
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Blicj11 on January 29, 2019, 12:49:02 AM
Good post, with valid points. I'm right there with you regarding upgrading hardware - been thinking about that macMini as well. I got lucky and found a used Apple Thunderbolt Display as a second display for my iMac in an authorized Mac reseller store and bought it for $300. It was in terrific shape. You are dead on regarding RAM. 24 is the lowest I've run for years and it's not enough on some occasions. 32 might be ok. I'm pretty sure Steve is running 40 GB in his new rig, so I believe it must be an iMac Pro. I've got an external drive for CarbonCopyCloner that runs off the USB 3 bus and its plenty fast.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Steve on January 29, 2019, 04:02:19 PM
The 27" iMac still allows you to swap out RAM. I bought mine with 8 GB, and added 32GB more for a total of 40GB. I think it will officially take up to 64, but unofficially up to 128. Not positive on the latter numbers, though.
Title: Hmm, VERY interesting! (Re: Upgrading from a early MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: elagache on January 29, 2019, 11:31:32 PM
Dear Blick, Steve, and WeatherCat seekers of Macintosh harmony,

The 27" iMac still allows you to swap out RAM. I bought mine with 8 GB, and added 32GB more for a total of 40GB. I think it will officially take up to 64, but unofficially up to 128. Not positive on the latter numbers, though.

Hmmmmm,   I hadn't thought about a regular iMac and upgrading the memory.  Other World Computing is more than willing to help:

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/imac-2017-27-inch (https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/imac-2017-27-inch)

It can be done in the new Mac mini, but apparently Apple made it really hard.  I haven't checked to see how hard it is to swap memory into the iMac.  However, that's as easy as checking out the videos!

Thanks for the tips!  [tup]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Hmm, VERY interesting! (Re: Upgrading from a early MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: Steve on January 30, 2019, 01:05:41 AM
I haven't checked to see how hard it is to swap memory into the iMac
Easy Peasy. Open the door, flip out the carrier, and swap cards. This only works on the 27" (at least as of the 2017/18 model, I assume still.) The 21" is not upgradable. And yea, I got my 32GB from OWC, too. Get two 16 GB cards so you can still use the 8GB built in.

Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Blicj11 on January 30, 2019, 03:40:54 PM
Steve:

1. Has 40 GB been sufficient for you?
2. Do you have a fusion drive or SSD?
3. What size drive?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Steve on January 30, 2019, 05:03:15 PM
Steve:

1. Has 40 GB been sufficient for you?
2. Do you have a fusion drive or SSD?
3. What size drive?

Thanks.

Absolutely enough RAM, even though I run way too much still 24 hours a day. Never even slows down when I have a couple heavy duty photo apps running. (2017 27" iMac w/3.8GHz i5 and Radeon Pro 580 GP)

I do have the fusion drive, and it is 2.12GB. I got rid of my various external drives and now have a Drobo, currently populated with three 4T drives, with two empty bays.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Blicj11 on January 31, 2019, 01:14:59 AM
I do have the fusion drive, and it is 2.12GB. I got rid of my various external drives and now have a Drobo, currently populated with three 4T drives, with two empty bays.

Which flavor of RAID are you running on the Drobo?

I appreciate your info as these things are on my list for 2019.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Steve on January 31, 2019, 04:20:33 PM

Which flavor of RAID are you running on the Drobo?

Drobo uses their own proprietary BeyondRAID system, which allows for drives of different sizes, manufacturers, etc. Something like this:
One 4GB Drive: no backup
Two 4GB Drives: 4GB usable, 4GB Backup (mirrored)
Three 4GB Drives: 8GB usable, each drive backed up to the other two.

All one partition, although you can add a Time Machine partition. So my CCC backup gets dumped into the main partition with other folders/directories that I keep there.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Blicj11 on January 31, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
Thanks. I'll check it out.
Title: Pulled da' trigger on a Mac mini (Re: Upgrading from a 2010 MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: elagache on February 01, 2019, 12:34:07 AM
Dear Blick, Steve, and WeatherCat users who make no upgrade before it's time,

Well I'm definitely more on the late side than not, but I finally looked over the choices and decided that the new Mac mini had enough additional punch and technology that I preferred that.  I ordered one with the 6 core CPU upgrade, 64 GB of ram, and a 1 TB SSD.  I also ordered the LG monitor since basically that is the only choice at this point.

Unfortunately it will take Apple as much as 6-8 days to prepare this machine.  In the meantime, my poor old MacBook is having sporadic drive connection failures.  It seems to be related to overheating.  If I run the computer sparingly it still works.  But I'll try not to use it unless absolutely necessary.   So I'm back to my iPad and 2009 MacBook for most of my computing.  Sure hope Apple can get Mac mini ready to go ASAP!

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Pulled da' trigger on a Mac mini (Re: Upgrading from a 2010 MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: wurzelmac on February 01, 2019, 06:04:34 AM
I ordered one with the 6 core CPU upgrade, 64 GB of ram, and a 1 TB SSD.

Wow, hammer machine and hammer price.  [woohoo]
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Blicj11 on February 01, 2019, 10:01:29 PM
This will be a nice upgrade for you Edouard. A nice new bit of kit is always fun even if it takes too long for the shipment to arrive.
Title: I hope it will last a good long time (Re: Upgrading from a 2010 MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: elagache on February 01, 2019, 10:37:17 PM
Dear Reinhard, Blick, and WeatherCat users who prefer that they hardware last a good long time,

Yes I decided to spend significantly more than perhaps I should have.  However, I really don't like to change my setup, so I'm hoping this Mac mini will last me many years.  So I had aim high to make sure it wouldn't fall behind too quickly.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: WCDev on February 09, 2019, 10:01:15 PM
Looks like it's quite a beast you've bought  [tup]
Title: Can't come fast enough! (Re: Upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: elagache on February 09, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Dear Stu and WeatherCat fans of powerful hardware,

Looks like it's quite a beast you've bought  [tup]

It should be quite a powerhouse, but Apple sure didn't help me as far as getting delivered swiftly even if I paid for expedited shipping.  The configuration I wanted wasn't particularly exotic.  Why doesn't Apple have a few of the more popular configurations in some warehouse in the United States? 

I got the shipment notice from Apple Thursday.  It shipped from Lantau Island Hong Kong!  It is already at a local airport but isn't scheduled to be delivered until Tuesday. 

Alas, my venerable MacBook gave up the ghost this week.  The last Time Machine backup I have is from a week ago Saturday and my data logger only has 8 days and 21 hours of data.  So to avoid any data loss I would really need the new computer on Monday.  For the amount of money this computer is costing me, I think Apple could come up with a much faster way to deliver this item.  As you've already noted Stu, Apple isn't what it once was.

Oh well, . . . . . Edouard
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: zazzy on April 05, 2019, 05:16:26 PM
I finally retired a couple older Macs, although I'm still using the 17" Powerbook to access servers and stuff.

I bought a Mac mini (actually two of them) and am almost finished transferring data, user account information, etc. I still have to move a few OSX mail mailboxes but that shouldn't be an issue. I have the .mbox files, so it's just a matter of doing the imports and organizing.

The only surprise is that Interarchy V10 doesn't work on Mojave. Version 11 Beta is supposed to work on Mojave, but it doesn't. The beta expired so it doesn't launch. I think the developer has checked out because his notes are few years old. Too bad. I was using Anarchy/Interarchy for a long time. So, I'm currently without a FTP program for the mini. It still works on the 17" so that be what I use for a bit.

While doing the transfer(s), I moved WeatherCat from the old iMac and I ran it on my 17" MacBook Pro for a short period. I had the same instability issues with WeatherCat when the FTP upload was turned on. The new Mac mini has been stable. So, there must be an incompatibility with 9+ year old hardware. Problem solved.

BTW, the screen sharing on Mojave and High Sierra works well. I didn't need to be anywhere near the Mac minis to do any of data transfers. Now that I'm practically done, I'll order and setup the Mac mini monitors.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: xairbusdriver on April 05, 2019, 08:39:49 PM
Roaring Apps (https://roaringapps.com) is a good site for checking on which apps might not work on newer OS's... although it may be a bit late now... [banghead] [blush]
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: zazzy on April 05, 2019, 09:01:01 PM
Roaring Apps (https://roaringapps.com) is a good site for checking on which apps might not work on newer OS's... although it may be a bit late now... [banghead] [blush]
Who would have thought that an App that works in High Sierra, which has an upgrade available that works in Mohave (although Beta), wouldn't work because the developer disabled the App, but you don't know until after you download, install and launch it for the first time. He's gone dark. Probably another computer guy that got bumped off by Hillary.

BTW, roaring apps shows that Interarchy works with Mohave. LOL. Actually, it did. It just doesn't now.
Title: Appears to be an issue for Interarchy. (Re: Advice for upgrading )
Post by: elagache on April 05, 2019, 10:19:44 PM
Dear zazzy, X-Air, and WeatherCat sys-admins

The only surprise is that Interarchy V10 doesn't work on Mojave. Version 11 Beta is supposed to work on Mojave, but it doesn't. The beta expired so it doesn't launch. I think the developer has checked out because his notes are few years old. Too bad. I was using Anarchy/Interarchy for a long time. So, I'm currently without a FTP program for the mini. It still works on the 17" so that be what I use for a bit.
. . . .

Unfortunately, there appears to be a problem with Interarchy.  There is the following discussion on MacInTouch about it:

https://www.macintouch.com/community/index.php?threads/gone-missing.706/ (https://www.macintouch.com/community/index.php?threads/gone-missing.706/)

To resolve your FTP deficiency, I can offer you a suggestion in Yummy FTP:

https://www.yummysoftware.com/ (https://www.yummysoftware.com/)

There are a number of FTP clients out there.  You could ask the other WeatherCatters for their own opinions.

I'm glad that you have otherwise completed your migration without difficulty.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Appears to be an issue for Interarchy. (Re: Advice for upgrading )
Post by: zazzy on April 05, 2019, 10:27:08 PM
Dear zazzy, X-Air, and WeatherCat sys-admins

The only surprise is that Interarchy V10 doesn't work on Mojave. Version 11 Beta is supposed to work on Mojave, but it doesn't. The beta expired so it doesn't launch. I think the developer has checked out because his notes are few years old. Too bad. I was using Anarchy/Interarchy for a long time. So, I'm currently without a FTP program for the mini. It still works on the 17" so that be what I use for a bit.
. . . .

Unfortunately, there appears to be a problem with Interarchy.  There is the following discussion on MacInTouch about it:

https://www.macintouch.com/community/index.php?threads/gone-missing.706/ (https://www.macintouch.com/community/index.php?threads/gone-missing.706/)

To resolve your FTP deficiency, I can offer you a suggestion in Yummy FTP:

https://www.yummysoftware.com/ (https://www.yummysoftware.com/)

There are a number of FTP clients out there.  You could ask the other WeatherCatters for their own opinions.

I'm glad that you have otherwise completed your migration without difficulty.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

I saw the discussion but ignored it because it was three years old. No big deal though.
Title: Dug a little deeper. (Re: Appears to be an issue for Interarchy.)
Post by: elagache on April 05, 2019, 10:37:14 PM
Dear zazzy, and WeatherCat sys-admins

I saw the discussion but ignored it because it was three years old. No big deal though.

Sorry, I'm rushing through these postings as quickly as I can and sometimes I'll miss an issue like the date.

A bit more digging and I found that the issue appears to be an expired beta.  Here is some information on Interarchy support forum.

https://forum.interarchy.com/ (https://forum.interarchy.com/)

Of course you could try contacting the developer to see what's up.  However, it appears that this developer is overloaded and having a hard time keeping up with Interarchy and some other commitments like probably da' dreaded day job.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: xairbusdriver on April 05, 2019, 11:03:24 PM
I've been using Fetch for decades but it is still a 32 bit app. The dev is working on the 64 bit version which will be required with OS 10.15 (assuming Apple keeps their word). At least one 64 bit FTP app is Transmit (https://www.panic.com/transmit/) ($45) by Panic Software (a well known company).
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: zazzy on April 05, 2019, 11:12:29 PM
I've been using Fetch for decades but it is still a 32 bit app. The dev is working on the 64 bit version which will be required with OS 10.15 (assuming Apple keeps their word). At least one 64 bit FTP app is Transmit (https://www.panic.com/transmit/) ($45) by Panic Software (a well known company).
Thanks. I used Fetch decades ago. I can't remember why I switched to Anarchy though. But, I might as well switch back.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: xairbusdriver on April 06, 2019, 12:34:43 AM
Quote
But, I might as well switch back.
Well, switching back will only work as long as you stay with Mojave macOS 10.14. When we get to whatever comes next, we'll be in the same "boat" unless Fetch gets converted to 64-bits. [banghead] I'll just put my pennies in a savings account and hope for the best! [lol] I do most of my editing of my site in BBEdit and it already has FTP built-in, so I rarely now need Fetch, anyway.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Steve on April 06, 2019, 02:34:53 PM
I switched from Fetch to ForkLift several years ago, and have been pleased. It's as much a file manager as it is an FTP client, and has a very active German developer. Give it a look.

https://binarynights.com

Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: xairbusdriver on April 06, 2019, 03:11:10 PM
Forklift looks like a more powerful PathFinder (which can't do the FTP thing)! ThU32:-) It is already 64-bits!
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: The Grand Poohbah on April 06, 2019, 05:53:33 PM
And at the opposite end of the scale: my systems. My WeatherCat runs on a dedicated 24-inch Early 2009 iMac with 4GB of RAM. It's show as molasses in winter, but it works 24/7. It only runs WeatherCat 3 and a program that I wrote to keep track of the water depth in our well. My main system is a 27-inch Late 2013 with 16GB of RAM and 3TB Fusion Drive. It is the everyday workhorse that runs Mail, Photos, Xcode, etc. at a nice speedy clip. I expect that the Fusion Drive helps.

Don't know what I'd do with more RAM, my programs would just rattle around in all that empty space.
Title: macOS curious RAM management. (Re: Upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: elagache on April 06, 2019, 09:52:25 PM
Dear X-Air, zazzy, Steve, Grand, and WeatherCat sys-admins,

. . .

Don't know what I'd do with more RAM, my programs would just rattle around in all that empty space.

Since I ended up upgrading to a Mac Mini with 64 GB of RAM, perhaps I can offer some insights on how macOS handles memory with a lot is available.  I haven't been able to run for a extremely long period of time, something always forces me to reboot.  I'm at almost 9 days of uptime right now.  Here is what Activity Monitor reports with regards to memory:

(http://www.canebas.org/misc/Capto_images/Activity%20Monitor%20memory%202019-04-06.png)

I run Postbox (email) and Firefox during the day and of course WeatherCat 24/7.  I also run some sort of audio application all the time and of course other software as the need arises.  I'm only using around 19 GB of RAM right now, but my MacBook Pro only had 16.  Apparently, macOS isn't all that good at coping with limited memory.  When there is plenty of it, it does just fine at recovering memory that is released when an application is closed.  Instead of having to reboot every few days, now I can run as long as circumstances permit with very little loss of memory over time.

It is unfortunate that Apple was slow to increase the optional memory in most Macs beyond 16 GB.  I suspect there are a lot of users who are running into problems because that isn't quite enough for macOS to manage that memory with a normal collection of open applications.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: zazzy on April 13, 2019, 07:07:01 PM
...Now that I'm practically done, I'll order and setup the Mac mini monitors.
Almost done. I'm building a shelf to store the keyboard, trackpad and hidden power strip so the power cords won't show. It'll be monitor width and mounted above the wall plates.

The monitor is mounted to an Ergotron arm and I can swing it all over the place.
Title: Re: Advice for upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?
Post by: Blicj11 on April 13, 2019, 10:14:30 PM
Zazzy:

That is a pretty cool setup. Thanks for sharing the photo (and invoking a little monitor envy).
Title: Thanks for sharing! (Was: Upgrading from a early-2010 MacBook Pro ?)
Post by: elagache on April 13, 2019, 10:18:54 PM
Dear zazzy and WeatherCat computer installation specialists,

Almost done. I'm building a shelf to store the keyboard, trackpad and hidden power strip so the power cords won't show. It'll be monitor width and mounted above the wall plates.

The monitor is mounted to an Ergotron arm and I can swing it all over the place.

Congratulations!  It looks very nice!  [tup] 

I had built for myself some shelves over 20 years ago but I would need one more for my monitor and I haven't had time to even start on the project.  At least today I finally finished pruning the roses - only 6-8 weeks late! . . . .  (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/D'oh.gif)

Thanks for sharing da' pic of your computer setup! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/kodak.gif)

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]