Author Topic: Battery check  (Read 9945 times)

gb509

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Battery check
« on: November 30, 2012, 10:01:27 AM »
To all,

When running battery power check the WC log reads:

09:55:01 30-Nov-2012:  WeatherCat Vantage Driver: ***Station Power Advice*** All transmitter batteries are good.
 09:55:13 30-Nov-2012:  WeatherCat Vantage Driver: Station Power Advice. Station voltage is now good - actual value is 4.545 Volts.

However the Console itself tells me LOW battery console and WC Hardware options screen shows battery value 3.45 V and bar is yellow

Is this normal or a possible bug?

Gerard

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2012, 05:47:49 PM »
Hi Gerard,
Is this via the Test Power System button in the Vantage/Vue hardware options? If so then, yes, the test disconnects the monitoring from the real data and injects simulated values which will ramp the console voltage down and up and flip the battery status of external transmitters. The test ends by setting everything to good, then switching back to the normal inputs. If Admin emails are enabled for power faults, then the relevant emails will also be sent. This allows you to set up any special filtering you may want on email or test external systems that may be monitoring the power (for example via AppleScript) without having to actually pull a battery.

If it isn't via the test, then on low (or missing) console battery, it isn't unknown for the console to send a good voltage followed by the more normal bad. At midnight it'll set all batteries to good then shortly afterwards you'll get failure messages for batteries that are actually bad - this will repeat every midnight.

gb509

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2012, 06:52:24 PM »
Hi Stu,

Thank you for your reply. Yes it is via the Test Power System. I do not have emails enabled but I was a bit confused about the Log data after starting the test showing different results from what it shows in the display. It is not a critical issue but I have had my Console Battery powered which gives me no comms errors whatsoever unlike the mains power according to many posts.

Thanks again for clarifying.

Gerard

xairbusdriver

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 09:50:34 PM »
Had this email this morning:
Station Power Alert Station voltage is low - actual value is 4.195 Volts. WC TimeStamp: 04:29:01

Later ran the Vantage Hardware Options test and got the following (all on 01-Mar-16):
3 Station Power Advice All transmitter batteries are good. WC TimeStamp: 10:18:14
4. Station Power Advice. Station voltage is now good - actual value is 4.522 Volts. WC TimeStamp: 10:18:28
5. Station Power Alert  Station voltage is low - actual value is 3.322 Volts. WC TimeStamp: 10:18:51

Replaced the station battery with one I'd bought last year not long after installing the station. Ran the "test" again and get the following:
3. Station Power Advice All transmitter batteries are good. WC TimeStamp: 15:01:01
4. Station Power Advice. Station voltage is now good - actual value is 4.518 Volts. WrC TimeStamp: 15:01:15
5. Station Power Alert Station voltage is low - actual value is 3.568 Volts. WC TimeStamp: 15:01:38

As I read the OP's question and your reply, these messages (ignoring the other two where individual channels are be tested) are normal and correct. My problem is understanding the real meaning of the messages.

Message 3. As far as I know, there is only one battery in the station/transmitter. Is that message  text (the "batteries") actually referring to the 8|7|6|5|4|3|2|ISS red/green markers in the "Transmitter Battery Status box?

Message 4. Is this the actual '123' battery voltage?Posted too quickly! [blush] According to this thread, this is actually reporting the Console battery status!? If that is correct, it is certainly confusing to have the same 'name' referring to two different things. Maybe it's my simple mind, I've been thinking that "Station" meant the ISS/transmitter station. I've thought of the Console as a receiver, although it does 'transmit' what it receives to the data logger... Hard to believe American is my native language! [banghead]

Message 5. Is this the actual Solar cell (or maybe the capacitor) output?

Does the "Console Voltage" bar become a 'progress bar' while the test in being performed? After the test completes, it does seem to indicate the value show in message 5 as Station voltage.

Not sure what I can do about this voltage while we have heavy clouds, rain, and short days. [rain2]

Thanks!
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


elagache

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Wrong batteries (Re: Battery check)
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 12:14:42 AM »
Dear X-Air and WeatherCat station caregivers,

Station Power Alert Station voltage is low - actual value is 4.195 Volts. WC TimeStamp: 04:29:01

These are your console batteries, not your ISS battery.  There is a single Lithium 123 battery in the ISS that has a nominal 3 volts rating.  Your console has 3 "C" batteries, so a nominal 4.5 Volts rating.  If indeed the console is down to 4.2 volts, it is time to change those batteries.  However, no need to get wet in order to do that.

Cheers, Edouard

xairbusdriver

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 12:23:31 AM »
Quote
no need to get wet in order to do that.
That's only because the rain has stopped! I doubt if we have any C cells in the frig (where we keep our stash of batteries) I'll probably also put the old 123 back in the ISS, since it is likely fine. [removed link to the now costly photobucket.com site] It would help if I could find my digital Volt/Ohm meter[rolleyes2] [banghead] [blush]

I'm still confused as to why the label/text doesn't specify what battery is low. At least the Pref window labels things correctly, but the emails are mainly to tell me to look at that prefs window and the "Console Votage" bar... Just remember, you can't make things idiot pruf! :P I think I may edit The Manual with a note to myself...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 02:55:40 PM by xairbusdriver »
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


Felix

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 12:01:25 PM »
Thanks for that explanation, Stu.

Edouard had a similar observation years ago and I'd wondered exactly what that Test button really was doing.

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=273.0

xairbusdriver

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 04:22:36 PM »
Quote
...on low (or missing) console battery, it isn't unknown for the console to send a good voltage followed by the more normal bad. At midnight it'll set all batteries to good then shortly afterwards you'll get failure messages for batteries that are actually bad - this will repeat every midnight.
If I'm reading this correctly, the "WeatherCat Vantage Driver: ***Station Power Alert*** Station voltage is low - actual value is 3.568 Volts." (which is actually reporting the Console battery status) is still reporting "low" after I replaced the three batteries and ran the "Test" again. But will "At midnight it'll set all batteries to good...".

OR it will report good and then low, if the then just purchased batteries are actually 'out-of-date/low'.

OR...  [banghead]

Bottom line:
1. If a message indicates "Station voltage" is <~2, it is be talking about the Console batteries, since the Transmitter has only one cell where it is extremely rare to find more than 1.5 volts.
2. The transmitter battery does not report any voltages, it is either good or bad as indicated by the eight segment "Transmitter Battery Status" graphic with labels per segment that mean something to someone. [rolleyes2]
3. Console battery voltage is not valid until after midnight of the day they are changed.

If the "Bottom line" is correct, I will be printing it on a piece of paper and digitally taping it to the PDF Manual. :)
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


Blicj11

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 06:27:38 PM »
1. If a message indicates "Station voltage" is <~2, it is be talking about the Console batteries, since the Transmitter has only one cell where it is extremely rare to find more than 1.5 volts.

The transmitter (ISS) battery has a nominal rating of 3 volts so you definitely want a reading of way more than 1.5.
Blick


elagache

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Not using the AC adapter for console? (Re: Battery check)
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 11:21:44 PM »
Dear X-Air, Blick, and WeatherCat station caregivers,

Quote
no need to get wet in order to do that.
That's only because the rain has stopped! I doubt if we have any C cells in the frig (where we keep our stash of batteries) I'll probably also put the old 123 back in the ISS, since it is likely fine. [tup] It would help if I could find my digital Volt/Ohm meter[rolleyes2] [banghead] [blush]

Yes indeed it would help if you could run a test on the batteries in question, especially if your volt meter has a load test which many do for 1.5 volt batteries.

However, I'm puzzled by something else.  Are you using the AC adapter to power the console or not?  Even if you have the console plugged into the wall, it is a good idea to replace the batteries once a year since they are your backup in case of power failure.  Still, unless you have a lot of power problems, those "C" batteries should be essentially unused.

By the way there is no reason to keep disposable batteries in the refrigerator.  There is an interesting explanation on this website:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/battery-myths-vs-battery-facts-1/#Freezer

It turns out that rechargeable batteries benefit from being kept cold, but disposable batteries will do fine in a cool pantry.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

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Re: Not using the AC adapter for console? (Re: Battery check)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 01:42:03 PM »
By the way there is no reason to keep disposable batteries in the refrigerator.  There is an interesting explanation on this website:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/battery-myths-vs-battery-facts-1/#Freezer

Edouard, just curious, have you tried the CR123A batteries from that website? The price is great. Somewhere else on the forum I recall Herb posted a link to a study that showed there is a longevity difference between generic and brand name 3 volt batteries.
Blick


xairbusdriver

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 04:09:17 PM »
Quote
Are you using the AC adapter to power the console or not?  Even if you have the console plugged into the wall, it is a good idea to replace the batteries once a year since they are your backup in case of power failure.  Still, unless you have a lot of power problems, those "C" batteries should be essentially unused.
And thus the third "OR" in my last post. Just now back home to check the "reset batteries" 'solution only to find the Console also reporting a "Low Console Batteries" message on the screen. The Hardware Options test dialog had reset; it was showing 2.65V! Unplugged/replugged the AC adaptor but I really need to find the meter to check the voltage that's being supplied.

I'm off to run errands (meds for the cat!), three more batteries and one more search for the meter! If I don't find it I will buy another... and then find the old one! [banghead]

If we don't keep the batteries in the frig, how will we be able to find them?! [wink]
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


xairbusdriver

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 06:21:08 PM »
New batteries. New meter.
All because (I think) the power adaptor plug was not fully into the Console. The center contact is very deep in the plug, had to use a straightened paper clip to even get contact with it. Voltage was close to 4.8. Plugged it back into the Console and it beeped and thanked me for buying Davis hardware. Not sure how/when the plug got pulled out just enough to lose contact, I'd done some work behind the desk last week... I think the cat did it! Yeah, That's the ticket!
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


xairbusdriver

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Re: Battery check
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 08:35:06 PM »
The Console seems to have kept all the weather data in memory while replacing the batteries. Unplugging and re-plugging the AC adapter started displaying current data without needing to run through all the screens.

WC "detected it had lost connection" with the Console, suggested Restarting the computer. I decided to Quit WC first. After pressing command-q several times and seeing the black dialog window showing some text and seeing a 5, ...4, ...3, ...2, ...1 and WC not shutting dow, much less WC, I 'quickly' remembered that I'd used the 'double-quit' function. [banghead] Nothing gets by me!!! [blush]

Restarted the machine and WC is now updating the web site! [cheer] Strangely, the Console battery voltage is still decreasing. It's now down to 2.41.83v! Either the AC adapter has quit or the voltage indication is like most battery testers; not much good.
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


elagache

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Something out of whack (Re: Battery check)
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 11:01:03 PM »
Dear Blick, X-Air, and WeatherCat troubleshooters,

Edouard, just curious, have you tried the CR123A batteries from that website? The price is great. Somewhere else on the forum I recall Herb posted a link to a study that showed there is a longevity difference between generic and brand name 3 volt batteries.

No, I haven't tried those particular batteries.  I've been doing my part to keep Herb in the pink and buying them from Amazon (where he gets his commission of course!  ;D )  Because there are two people in the house with serious mobility issues, we end up buying quite a bit from Amazon.  So it is more convenient to just add those batteries to the items purchased there.

Strangely, the Console battery voltage is still decreasing. It's now down to 2.41.83v! Either the AC adapter has quit or the voltage indication is like most battery testers; not much good.

X-Air, you've got something out of whack on your Davis setup.  You might try double-checking the voltage on the AC adapter if your new volt tester will allow it.  However, it is hard to believe that could fail.  You may have a console with "issuez."  If you continue to see this, you probably should call Davis technical support and see what they think.  Your station should be still under warranty, but if you have to send the console in . . . you'll lose some data.  :(

Sorry, you've are observing this sort of thing.

Edouard