Author Topic: Noobie Davis hardware question  (Read 42523 times)

xairbusdriver

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2015, 04:56:43 PM »
OT: Steve, I had never seen or heard of that Sunlight Recorder! The WiKi page says:
Quote
There are no moving parts and it thus requires very little maintenance.
I can only assume that the Sun is not considered as a "part" since it is 'pre-installed'! [lol2] That might help in alleviating some potential concerns from SWMBO... assuming one could be found inexpensively! I suspect it might be more expensive that a Davis Pro2 Plus!! :o ...er ...uhmn, no 'suspecting'! ...it obviously is expensive! Even the cards were over $150 US for a package of 380!!! Looks like that might last over a year, [thinking]! [rockon]
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And the United States = The Banana system


Steve

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2015, 05:34:27 PM »
Yep, the sunshine recorder is a beauty, but I don't use the cards I have. I really should buy some more before they can't be found at any cost! I sure stumbled into a great deal on that bit of hardware.  [sun3]

http://athena.trixology.com/index.php?topic=361.0


BTW, I was going to mention the heater, and forgot. While some of us have the Davis heater, there are also several that use an inexpensive reptile heating strip to melt snow/ice, keeping the cone measuring actual current precipitation.

Steve
Steve - Avon, Ohio, USA


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Blicj11

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2015, 05:38:34 PM »
I completely agree with everything Steve says about this. Take your time and think it through. Get what you want. Pay a little more for quality. Don't think you have to get everything from Davis. My mate fabricated my anemometer pole and bracket and it's way better than anything I could have purchased retail.

It sounds like you've thought about this, but I just want to emphasize that sometimes you have to give up the ideal site for practicality. You do have to do some annual maintenance on the ISS so you don't want it stuck up somewhere that is not practical or safe to easily reach. One of my mates put his anemometer on a pole he rigged up on his rooftop. It works great, but frequently spider webs get wrapped around the entire thing and he has to climb back up there to clean them off.

http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/Station_Maintenance
Blick


Blicj11

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2015, 05:43:10 PM »
I have not yet broached the subject of a "Weather Station" in the yard to SWMBO*.

Love your reference to Rumpole. Some of the most enjoyable books I have read.
Blick


xairbusdriver

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2015, 06:55:41 PM »
Quote from: Blick
sometimes you have to give up the ideal site for practicality
Well, there is about 140 acres on the other side of my back fence... I could put everything about 500' behind the fence... might get 'damaged' the next time they mow the hay, however... I might as well post an image of the "landscape" to show the lack of open space I have. BTW, I found a nice site that can provide Lt/Long + altitude and a clearer Google image: <EarthTools.org> Unknown accuracy, of course, but the US Geological survey site seems to have changed a bit since the info was posted in the CWOP pubs.

Quote from: Blick
...spider webs get wrapped around the entire thing and he has to climb back up there to clean them off
Couldn't I just use a shotgun?! Or just teach spiders to fear heights! 8)

Right now, I'm intrigued my the post mount Steve used. Closest thing I can find is this <'spike' mount>. Seems a bit over-kill to dig a hole for concrete, etc. for something like <this>.
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


xairbusdriver

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2015, 07:42:28 PM »
Site choices:
"A" and "B" are as close to "open space" as it gets in the back yard. "W" is for the proposed anemometer (with another ISS) on a 5' tripod holding at least a 5' mast.

"C" is more open but would be subject to neighbor approval and would place the ISS farthest from the location of the Console at "R".
[removed link to the now castly photobucket.com site]
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 06:02:20 PM by xairbusdriver »
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


elagache

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This and that (Was: Noobie Davis hardware question)
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2015, 11:08:19 PM »
Dear xairbusdriver, Steve, Felix, and WeatherCat station layout designers,

Except that the deck itself and the gravel/concrete/etc under it (plus the house since it's in close proximity) acts as a giant heat sink. The result is that your gauge readings will always lag what you'd get from a sensor suite set up closer to the NOAA guidelines. And naturally there'll be data 'smoothing' since the under deck sensors aren't able to react as quickly to rapidly changing conditions.

Actually my location is much better than you suggest.  Take a look at a photo on my website:



The deck is large and there are trees to the east, south and west.  Also, the thermometer is mounted a long way from the house and the area under the deck only gets sun exposure for the earliest part of the morning.  All other times it is in the shade.  Air does get stagnant under the deck, but for many years I had two Davis thermometers and they were very close when the sun wasn't beating on the other one.

As you've seen, you can purchase the daytime FARS after buying the unit. But the 24 hour FARS is not available separately, and is completely different inside than the non-FARS or daytime FARS units.

Officially this is true but Scaled Instruments parts out Davis stations and will sell you a FARS unit:

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-6153s-24hr-solar-powered-aspirated-shield-for-pro2/

"A" and "B" are as close to "open space" as it gets in the back yard. "W" is for the proposed anemometer (with another ISS) on a 5' tripod holding at least a 5' mast.

"C" is more open but would be subject to neighbor approval and would place the ISS farthest from the location of the Console at "R".

Keep in mind that you can run your anemometer cable a long way.  I think the Davis techs said 250 feet, but you should double-check before running it that far.  Something else you might consider related to Steve's suggestion is to simply mount the temperature/humidity probe and rain gauge at separate locations on a tall pole.

The higher your temperature/humidity probe is, the better the temperature reading will be.  On the other hand the rain gauge should be easy to reach as it needs more frequent maintenance and doesn't need to be very high to give accurate readings.  You can use the extra rain gauge mount that Steve suggested to do this and extend the rain gauge cable as I've done.  I would suggest not mounting the temperature/humidity probe higher than the reach of a step-ladder since that is where your station transmitter would also have to be located and that does require occasional maintenance. 

It will always be true that a FARS station will give you better data, but you might start out with a standard radiation shield mounted high up over some of the grass at locations A or B and see how that works.  If you decide you want the FARS rig, you can still upgrade from Scaled Instruments.

Hopefully some more ideas to daydream about!  [sleep]

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

xairbusdriver

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 02:27:53 AM »
Cable runs are pretty dangerous; there is a 'grand-dawg' that loves to dig in that area quite often! Nor do I want to have it 'overhead' where the squirrels/birds could walk/land.

I'm thinking maybe we should just buy 40 acres and start with a clean slate/yard! [lol2]
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And the United States = The Banana system


Bull Winkus

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2015, 06:02:20 AM »
Hello there xairbusdriver, and welcome to the Trixology threads!

I just wanted to chip in my unexpurgated 2? worth. A little about me. I've only been keeping a VantagePro2 setup since 2010, so there are many here with more weather data experience, and probably a good deal smarter. However, my background is in metrology as an instrument technician. I'm retired from Abbott Laboratories after 10 years doing calibration maintenance in pharmaceuticals manufacturing. But, I noticed you kept referring to setting up your anemometer on a second ISS, so perhaps a little clarification is in order. The Davis system is a good one and is easily set up and maintained, because it is canned. That is to say, it is a highly specific cluster of data collection channels under one bundle. In other words, you can only use one ISS with one computer at one time. That cluster will give you a specific number of channels for specific data collection purposes, though only a few are used with the initially purchased equipment. The software, WeatherCat (WC) or otherwise, is locked into collecting data from the array of possibilities from the single ISS and other transmitters designed to exist on the wireless communications protocol being used, and its limited number of channels.

You can have more than one ISS, but for each computer and instance of WeatherCat you'll have to choose which ISS to get feed from, to the exclusion of the other. To collect from both, you'll need another instance of WC running somewhere else.

However, Davis does supply a wireless transmitter with solar & battery for use with the Anemometer. It also provides additional temperature/humidity channels and transmitter hardware as well as ones for soil moisture/temperature.

I located my anemometer on the peak of my roof, mounted on a mast attached to the roof with a tripod. It works very well, despite the numerous trees on the property. The only problem is servicing it about once or twice a year means climbing that ladder. I've got the ISS and rain gauge on my lot next door, mounted on a galvanized pole, a technique I learned from Steve. No cement in the hole, though. Just dirt & rocks and, of course, the pole. I don't buy into the necessity of fan aspiration. When mounted over grass at about 5 ft and away from radiant structures, the only issue to cause temperature offset is solar heat gain in still air. Since that is a very small percent of the time here, I don't concern myself with it.

Best of luck with your installation. Remember, there are no dumb questions if you can filter out the dumb answers.
Herb

Blicj11

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 06:15:56 AM »
One thing for sure, we love to help other forum members spend their money! It always costs me less to help you buy your hardware than if you are helping me buy mine. The number one rule in this hobby is Have Fun.
Blick


xairbusdriver

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2015, 03:45:25 PM »
First, thanks for the welcome!

Quote from: Bull
I noticed you kept referring to setting up your anemometer on a second ISS
My bad. :-X What I called an "ISS" was really the wireless connection box that can be bought for adding remotely located instruments. Looking at the manual drawings, it appears to be very similar to the "ISS" in the Vantage Pro2; same cable inputs, same sized box, same channel dip switches, maybe a slightly smaller solar array (I'd have to look at them (virtually) side by side. The only physical difference seems to be the slanted solar array in the base station; the remote box is a simple parallel sided box, any tilt would have to be done mechanically. The proper term for the remote box is probably "SIM". I think the drawing actually labels the IC card as "SIM". ???

Bottom line, I don't really know how it is connected to the Console (and, therefore, the software). I assumed (well, there's my problem!) that the remote simply 'talked' to the main station which then transmitted the data to the Console. OTOH, perhaps each sensor's data must be recognized by the Console and if only one source is received for each type sensor, the Console, from the same 'channel', it displays them. Or, it may be completely different and much more robust and logical than my musings!

Bottom line, I will need to make sure the remote sensor connects to the same 'page' on the Console. I sure hope Davis uses the K.I.S.S. principle!
[lol2]

This site has impressed me with its friendliness and helpfulness. Perhaps that's partially due to the enjoyment of helping "other forum members spend their money"?!
[cheer]
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system


elagache

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Understanding the Davis setup. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 10:09:46 PM »
Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station design experts,


Bottom line, I don't really know how it is connected to the Console (and, therefore, the software).

Perhaps this diagram will help.  It is the old way I had my station setup:



The big idea is that you have a single radio transmitter (in Davis's terminology ISS) and every sensor has to have a wired connection to that transmitter.  Normally all the sensors are attached to the ISS (which stands for Integrated Sensor Suite,) except the Anemometer.  In the setup above, I have a long cable going from my temperature/humidity probe under the deck to my rain gauge (which you can see in the early picture I posted on this thread.

I have learned da' hard way!! [banghead] that one instrument must never have its cable extended: the temperature/humidity probe.  It took me almost 5 months to straighten out a failure related to my extension on the temperature/humidity probe.  According to Davis any other sensor can have its cable extended.

So unfortunately, you will need some way to run the anemometer cable from your roof to wherever you want to put the other sensors.  You might have to bury the cable underground to deal with da' pooch.  When I changed my configuration, I had to put some conduits along the side of the house to run my data cables since my station transmitter is now under the deck next to the temperature/humidity sensor.

The wireless part is between the station transmitter outside and the console inside the house.  If you have a location with sufficient sunlight, the outdoor transmitter will work fine.  It is possible even to run the station transmitter exclusively on batteries.  I have a Davis 6382 transmitter and temperature/humidity probe that runs only on 123 lithium batteries.  They need to be replaced once every 4 months or so.  In my example I have a second "receiver" in the form of a Davis Weather Envoy (6316).  That allows me to keep the console in a central location for everyone in the house to see it.  The Weather Envoy then has the data-logger and USB connection that allows WeatherCat to get data from the station.  If you didn't realize it, you will also have to purchase WeatherLink for Mac.  The WeatherLink software is really lame, but you need to buy this in order to get the data logger and USB interface to connect your station to your computer.  Alternatively, you can buy a WeatherLinkIP data logger and Eithernet interface.  In that case you will be connecting your console to an Ethernet port on your home local area network.  That is another way to avoid having to have your console next to the Mac where you run WeatherCat.

Sorry if this is a bit overwhelming.  Davis started out making stations for industry, government and academia.  So there are lots of options and installation possibilities.  Definitely keep asking questions until you feel like you understand what you are trying to do.  The Davis Vantage Pro-2 is a great station, but it is a complicated setup as well.

Cheers, Edouard  [cheers1]

Blicj11

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Re: Understanding the Davis setup. (Re: Noobie Davis hardware question)
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2015, 11:35:58 PM »
Love the diagram Edouard!

If you didn't realize it, you will also have to purchase WeatherLink for Mac.  The WeatherLink software is really lame, but you need to buy this in order to get the data logger and USB interface to connect your station to your computer.  Alternatively, you can buy a WeatherLinkIP data logger and Eithernet interface.  In that case you will be connecting your console to an Ethernet port on your home local area network.  That is another way to avoid having to have your console next to the Mac where you run WeatherCat.

Here is nice comparison of USB vs IP data loggers: http://wiki.trixology.com/index.php/A_comparison_of_the_Davis_USB_and_IP_data_loggers_for_the_Vantage-2/Vue_line_of_weather_stations

You have to buy Weatherlink either way to get a Davis data logger. You don't use it; they just make you buy it as it comes packaged with the data logger.
Blick


xairbusdriver

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2015, 12:54:36 AM »
First, Edouard, I most say you have a very unusual shaped house! It must be fun trying to hang pictures on those curved walls! :P

Here's another attempt to list Davis devices I think I'll need ( ? is retail price from Davis ):
  • Wireless (non-FAR) Advantage Pro2 (Part # 06152 $650 ?)
  • WeatherLink for Mac (Part # 06520 $165 ?) [apparently the part number specifies which type data logger one want? confirmed by blick while I was slowly pecking away, often with three fingers!  :-[ ]
  • 6' treated 4"x4" cedar post plus ground mounting system
  • WeatherCat software!
Extra stuff to move the anemometer to the roof:
The Alternate System Configuration pdf (Application Notes list) seems to imply that remotely and wirelessly mounting the anemometer, temperature, and/or humidity sensors are an accepted method of installation. It also implies that an additional Transmitter Kit (#6332) might be needed for any sensor cannot be cable connected to a single Kit. <- (I have no idea what I was trying to say in that last sentence!! [banghead] )

I'm confused as to why any cabling is needed, at least for the sensors. Is it mainly a problem with the WeatherCat software? Does the data logger not combine the data from the various sensors? Note I have not even mentioned the channel settings on either the ISS in the Vantage Pro or the SIM Kit. [banghead]
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Bull Winkus

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Re: Noobie Davis hardware question
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2015, 07:07:58 AM »
Well now hold on there, partner? Take a deep breath and repeat after me, "It's a lot simpler than it looks."  ;D

Extra stuff to move the anemometer to the roof:
Envoy (Part # 06316 $175 ?)
Anemometer/Sensor Transmitter Kit (Part # 06332 $150 ?)
Mast, tripod or wall-mounts


The console handles all at the receiving end. If you don't use a computer, you could stop there with just a Wireless (non-FAR) Advantage Pro2 and your extra stuff list above. The wireless transmitter kit for the Anemometer/Sensor will do the trick of getting it to the console. An Envoy is just a faceless console which can be used in conjunction with or in place of the console that's included with the 6182 package. To hook up to the computer, you need the WeatherLink pkg, because it's got the Davis data logger in it. That data logger is your USB connection to your Mac, if you're not going with the IP data logger. Then you must install a driver so that your computer recognizes the connection, and that's pretty much it.

All the sensors available for the system are all pre-configured. All you have to do is get 'em and light 'em up.
Herb