Noobie Davis hardware question

[xairbusdriver]

I'm confused about "Standard" (6252), add-on "Day-time" (7747), and the 6153 (24/7) radiation shields on the Wireless Vantage Pro2 kit. As I understand the power for this uint, there is a solar array that normally powers the station by keeping a larger capacitor charged. At night or after a long period of cloudy weather, the capacitor can keep the station powered for quite a while. When/if the capacitor voltage gets low enough, there is a small lithium battery that can power the station for...(?).

It appears that most here recommend the 'fan assist' over the "Standard" shield, even in moderate climates. So...
Does the 6153 also include another battery/capacitor in order to run 24/7? It appears to include an additional solar array for the extra ~$160US (retail) over the add-on "Day-time" fan/array. I'm pretty handy with a large hammer, so I think I could handle the retrofit. 

[Blicj11]

Good questions.

First, you are comparing a Vantage Vue 6252 with a Vantage Pro2 6153. The Add-on 7747 is a kit to retrofit the Vantage Pro2 6152, which does not have the aspirated fan shield.

Second, I'd recommend you first decide whether you want a Vue or a Pro2. The Vue is cheaper and provides the basics. The Pro2 is more versatile and a bit more accurate. I went with the Pro2 because you can disconnect the anemometer from the ISS and place it somewhere else for more accurate wind speed and directions readings. Also, I think the black rain collector cone melts snow quicker in the winter. Pro2 is better for places where there are large snow storms. Others may chime in here with differing opinions.

Third, if you live someplace where you have lots of sunshine and periods of little or no wind, the fan aspirated radiation shield gives you a more accurate temperature reading. I live in the mountains where there is always some kind of wind and I don't need the fan.

Fourth, with regards to the solar unit and battery, you are correct. The battery only takes over when the capacitor is empty. The solar unit does not charge the battery. Many Davis owners change their battery in the ISS unit every summer so they don't get caught having to change it during a blizzard. I just let my battery run until it dies. WeatherCat let's you check the voltage so you know when you need to replace. My first battery lasted almost 7 years. When I changed it, someone was helping me and he forgot to plug the solar unit back into the control panel in the ISS so the battery was used continuously and it lasted 5 months.

If you are checking prices on Davis hardware, here are some places to include in your search:

http://www.scientificsales.com/default.asp
http://www.rainmanweather.com/site/Davis-Best-Price-Quote
http://www.provantage.com/davis-instruments-weather-environmental~50ENVIR_DAVS.htm

Hope this helps.

[xairbusdriver]

First...

Agreed.

Second...

I think my siting will be easier with at least the anemometer separated from the other parts... similar to your situation.
  Which brings up another question that I need to search the threads about. [later]OK, I now understand that the anemometer is the only thing that can be separated from these stations. I was hoping the rain gauge could be mounted remotely, also. Oh well, just makes correct siting more important.

Third...

In the planned location, there will be morning Sun except in Winter. But that site is also protected from winds. Memphis, TN area, so we don't get much snow, it is supposed to be only on odd numbered years. I'll post a satellite view of my property before making any installations. I always try to have some one to blame... 

Fourth..., you are correct.

I plan on showing this part (only) to my wife!

Thanks for the Provantage link, I gathered four others from various threads. I saw a page on the WiKi that had five, but I've been unable to find that page today. Maybe that was the fifth source!

Thanks, Blick

[xairbusdriver]

Another question (I got a million of 'em!  ):

I think the black rain collector cone melts snow quicker in the winter.

And it looks like the 6152 has the black one as opposed to the one on the Vue. We don't usually get much snow, but we do get ice storms. I don't think the 6152 has a heater, but I hope the opening is big enough to hold at least an inch of sleet/freezing rain... OTOH, how is the expansion of freezing/thawing water handled? As I understand it, rain is dumped automatically every so often. And a minimal amount is even measured. Is that how the station avoids freezing water from breaking the container?

[LesCimes]

Fun to read of another weather station being planned! The hobby is a bit addicting and has certain pragmatic benefits too.

I purchased the VP2 without the fan; I live in central Georgia, climate therefore similar to Memphis. Added the fan kit after the fact. Unfortunately, I just determined that the fan no longer works. I guess it worked five years or so - not sure when it quit working. So, there might be some advantage to buying the model with the 24/7 fan feature. That is what I'd buy if I could get a new one now.

The heater for the rain gauge is an optional and separate purchase. Freezing and ice hasn't been a problem. The rain bucket capacity is plenty large. I have never had a problem with my VP2 in ice storms. Yes, it freezes up but it clears out rapidly in the thaw. Tipper mechanism none the worse for the wear.

Keep the forum uptodate on your progress. Congrats.

[elagache]

Dear xairbusdriver, Blick, LesCimes, and WeatherCat station planners,

I'm confused about "Standard" (6252), add-on "Day-time" (7747), and the 6153 (24/7) radiation shields on the Wireless Vantage Pro2 kit.

Sorry, I'm normally able to jump in and help out, but definitely running ragged at the moment. 

The standard radiation shields just don't work that well under any circumstances.  So if you want really good temperature data, you are better off (assuming you can afford it) to buy the 24/7 fan aspirated station.  However, there are some gotchas.  Those stations have rechargeable batteries that won't last forever and the motors also will wear out eventually.  The grape-vine is reporting that the quality of Davis motors had gone down recently, so motor problems are likely to be more frequent.

I ended up using one of the "Day-time only" add-on kits when I recently moved my station transmitter from in the sunshine to under a deck.  To do that I ended up powering my station transmitter with a Davis AC adapter.  With AC handy, I'm powering my add-on fan using a universal AC adapter.  Unfortunately, that fan is already rattling.  To replace it, I'm going to use a fan for PC cases.  Those fans are tough and very quiet.

So something else you could consider is if you could power your station from AC.  It is odd-ball and will cost you a bit more, but it avoids the maintenance expenses later on of replacing batteries and having to buy motors only from Davis.

Some more food for thought for you!

Cheers, Edouard 

[xairbusdriver]

Unfortunately, I just determined that the fan no longer works...there might be some advantage to buying the model with the 24/7 fan

Assuming it is a better fan! If not, it just might wear out twice as fast!

Just got through reading the installation manual. Noticed that in cleaning the rain gauge it suggests using a pipe cleaner "to clear the funnel hole in the cone". That leads me to think expanding ice might not be a problem as it will simply 'move' upwards in the cone if it freezes. Apparently, that small hole allows a rather long and/or slow 'flow' of water into the tipping cups. At worst, the rain (snow/sleet) rate would be less than actual, but the total probably very accurate, at least in our climate which usually doesn't remain below freezing for more than a couple of days. Looks like the tipper cups are designed to retain a very small amount of liquid, that would also help prevent any freezing damage. Cleaning out the drain in the main body would be important to remember, also. I assume that's the only way the rain can get out after the tipper cups dump it.

I'm leaning (already?!) toward doing the same thing you did. Spreading out the hit on the pocket book and waiting buying the day-time fan later. If my temps end up being way off that would be a signal to buy it. The difference in price should pay for a pretty accurate (non-wired, eye-ball read, heresy?) thermometer I can mount under the covered area that is well protected from the sun. [thinking]

...an optional and separate purchase.

I'm beginning to think that is a big part of this hobby! Seems to be a key goal of most businesses! Worked out that way form our little fish pond! Pretty much part of life, actually!

Thanks for your sharing your experiences!

[xairbusdriver]

Hello, Edouard,

I read about your experience with those motors and your plan to use a PC fan. Unfortunately, it may be that I have to mount the whole shebang (sorry for using technical terms) on a post/pole in the middle of the back yard. That precludes using AC. I was not sure how that full-time fan was powered.

Now I'm confused (again?!). Davis claims the add-on 'day-time' FAR is "half the cost" of the full-time FAR. Maybe they mean compared to adding the full-time afterward.
But, they also claim that it runs only on the included solar panel, "no batteries required". Still no guarantees on how long it should last, of course! Here's the page that's confusing me: <Daytime FAR Shield Kit>

I think I need to get an image showing my siting possibilities before getting too carried away with this project.

Thanks for your help!

[elagache]

Dear xairbusdriver and WeatherCat station caregivers,

Just got through reading the installation manual. Noticed that in cleaning the rain gauge it suggests using a pipe cleaner "to clear the funnel hole in the cone".

I think that advice refers to something like leaves, flowers, or other debris that had been blown into the rain gauge.  I usually using an air duster to remove things like that after removing the collector cone.  That way I can blow the item from the other side.

I'm leaning (already?!) toward doing the same thing you did. Spreading out the hit on the pocket book and waiting buying the day-time fan later. If my temps end up being way off that would be a signal to buy it. The difference in price should pay for a pretty accurate (non-wired, eye-ball read, heresy?) thermometer I can mount under the covered area that is well protected from the sun. [thinking]

There is another way to think about the problem.  If you are going to have a accurate thermometer that isn't going to be included in your WeatherCat data that's kind of defeating the purpose of having a weather station in the first place.

What I ended up doing is buy the housing for a Davis temperature/humidity station (6382)  I then moved my station transmitter board into that.  Then I ran cable extensions to all my other weather instruments.  Davis says you can run at least 50 feet with most of the instruments.  In some cases much longer.  That way I got the accurate temperature data I wanted but had my other instruments where I could get good wind, rainfall, and solar radiation.  Here is a link to the data cable extension kits:

http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/install_cables.asp

I read about your experience with those motors and your plan to use a PC fan. Unfortunately, it may be that I have to mount the whole shebang (sorry for using technical terms) on a post/pole in the middle of the back yard. That precludes using AC. I was not sure how that full-time fan was powered.

It is difficult to get accurate temperature data if you leave your temperature/humidity probe in full sun.  The Davis FARS setup comes as close as possible but even it does best when you mount it relatively high over terrain like grass.  If you do that, then accessing your rain gauge can become more difficult.  In my case I had a deck with AC power available.  So I mounted my temperature/humidity probe under that.  So there is no possibility of sun exposure at all.  I did have a problem though.  The air was so stagnant under the deck that I reading would be off under conditions of very still air.  Adding the fan has now solved that problem.

Unfortunately, I just made that switch of the transmitter location and I still haven't had time to write up how I did it, but it is something to consider if indeed you have some sun-protected location were you could put the Davis temperature/humidity probe.

Cheers, Edouard

[Steve]

Hi Xairbusdriver, and welcome to the forum!

You asked about separating the precipitation cone from the rest of the system. That is possible with the purchase of a second base and making a longer cable. You could have the anemometer, precipitation cone, and the temp/humidity sensors in three locations.

And a note on the different FARS units. As you've seen, you can purchase the daytime FARS after buying the unit. But the 24 hour FARS is not available separately, and is completely different inside than the non-FARS or daytime FARS units. There is an internal cylinder where the temp/humidity sensors are suspended, and a top-mounted fan to draw air up through the cylinder. This helps tremendously on those stagnant days OR nights to show the correct temperature and humidity. If you have a constant breeze, this isn't such an advantage, but if you do have frequent times of stagnant air, I highly recommend trying to find the extra funds for the 24-hour FARS.

Like Edouard, I have had fan problems. One was replaced by Davis at no charge, and it looks like I need to replace another one.

Steve

[Felix]

<snip>
In my case I had a deck with AC power available.  So I mounted my temperature/humidity probe under that.  So there is no possibility of sun exposure at all.  I did have a problem though.  The air was so stagnant under the deck that I reading would be off under conditions of very still air.  Adding the fan has now solved that problem.
<snip>

Except that the deck itself and the gravel/concrete/etc under it (plus the house since it's in close proximity) acts as a giant heat sink. The result is that your gauge readings will always lag what you'd get from a sensor suite set up closer to the NOAA guidelines. And naturally there'll be data 'smoothing' since the under deck sensors aren't able to react as quickly to rapidly changing conditions.

Not saying any of that is bad, we all have to adjust our sensor sitings to make best use of the area available. Plus, much of the attraction of maintaining a PWS is knowing the microclimate conditions at our exact location...versus some airport miles away or a localized best guess.

[Steve]

For reference, here's a link to the replacement base to allow separating the ISS and rain collector assemblies. For only $18, it is an inexpensive option. You'd also need the hardware to mount the second base.

https://www.scaledinstruments.com/product/davis-7342-074-pro2-rain-collector-base/

[xairbusdriver]

I haven't posted an image of my rather small back yard, yet. It's probably no more of a problem than many other "suburban" folks have in siting these stations. After reading the NOAA details, I thought about moving the anemometer to a pole on the highest peak of our roof. Davis has kindly anticipated that problem by 'offering' what looks to be basically a slightly modified ISS package. Then there are the masts and mounting hardware... and you and I suspect the only sensor that will have recurring problems will be the one on a pole at the highest point on the 12/12 roof! Maybe I can also permanently mount a ladder to that thing; maybe even one of those mini chairlift things to avoid climbing the stairs... Yeah, and maybe I need to see about a loan before the rates go up...

I liked the idea of mounting the temp/humid sensor under the back 'porch' roof, but that would still require running a wire over 40' to the rain gauge or buying yet another remote ISS! While that 'porch' has pretty good circulation, the floor is actually brick that will get lots of sunlight in Summer. There are ceiling fans, but running those three AC motors will certainly add to the electricity bill!

Another possible problem with the 'porch' location may be aesthetics! I have not yet broached the subject of a "Weather Station" in the yard to SWMBO*. Some weird looking box on the 'porch' wall/ceiling may be even more 'controversial'! I think it may be easier to mount the main station in the middle of the most open spot in the yard and let the abundant foliage hide it from view of certain, unnamed household members!!

Does anyone think I'm over-thinking this?! 

* Also known as "She Who Must Be Obeyed"

[Steve]

Does anyone think I'm over-thinking this?!

Nah, we've all done this. I started out planning to get a $109 cheap unit, and ended up with the Vantage Pro2 Plus with remote anemometer, soil station, second console, etc. I just moved the decimal point one place. (and then some...  )

Take your time and figure out what you want in the long run. Some things you can defer (such as the additional temp/humidity station or remote anemometer) and some you need to decide up front (such as 24 hour FARS.) You can add solar/UV, or buy it with the station. It costs less as a unit, but allows spreading the cost out if you do it piecemeal.

Be sure you are looking at the *discounted* prices at Rainman Weather, Scaled Instruments, etc. Davis does not allow advertising lowest prices, so all the dealers have pages with substantially lower prices. You can save hundreds on a top of the line system.

But most of all, have fun. The planning/buying/waiting stage is as much fun as the fiddling with it state once you get a station.

There's a link around here somewhere showing several setups for our stations. Here's my web page detailing my system. Feel free to peruse and ask any questions. http://www.avon-weather.com/about.html

Steve

[EDIT] By the way, I got my mast and tripod from Radio Shack for quite a bit less than the cost of the official Davis Mast. They're probably both made by the same supplier...

[xairbusdriver]

I've already visited your site! I agree about the price thing, I've bookmarked at least four sources, gleaned from Trixology. The threads here are full of useful advice and hands-on experience, and not just about one brand, either. Even found a couple of 'antenna' dealers for masts and tripods (most claiming to be "Made in the USA", uhmn, yeah, these things are not designed for shipping overseas ) Also agree that 'planning' is as enjoyable as the trip!

BTW, I think that <'setups' thread> may be in the 'pinned' section of the "Hardware/Measurement" forums. Been there, done that, also!